1 00:00:42,535 --> 00:00:47,529 So, Kathy, the Prime Minister saw fit to invite one into the Cabinet 2 00:00:47,695 --> 00:00:49,925 and, well, here one is. 3 00:00:50,095 --> 00:00:52,086 Isn't it a terrific responsibility? 4 00:00:53,095 --> 00:00:57,088 I suppose, if one chooses to dedicate one's life to public service, 5 00:00:57,255 --> 00:00:59,689 responsibility is something one accepts. 6 00:00:59,855 --> 00:01:03,643 - But all this power! - I know, I know! 7 00:01:03,815 --> 00:01:07,808 Frightening sometimes. But it also makes one very humble. 8 00:01:07,975 --> 00:01:12,969 There one sits at the Cabinet table, Number 10 Downing Street, and one realises... 9 00:01:13,135 --> 00:01:15,126 Bernard rang, O humble one. 10 00:01:15,295 --> 00:01:18,844 Central House want you to watch a programme on BBC2. 11 00:01:19,015 --> 00:01:22,610 Maureen Watkins, MP. One of the backbench MPs. 12 00:01:22,775 --> 00:01:28,168 Not my favourite lady. A rampaging feminist. I don't think I'll bother. Don't write that down. 13 00:01:28,335 --> 00:01:33,728 I like Maureen Watkins. Don't you think that women are still the exploited sex? 14 00:01:33,895 --> 00:01:38,650 All of us in 5B think that women are exploited at work and at home 15 00:01:38,815 --> 00:01:43,809 and still it's a world designed by men and run by men for men's convenience. 16 00:01:45,615 --> 00:01:48,607 - Like SHE says. - Not any longer, surely? 17 00:01:48,775 --> 00:01:53,053 - She doesn't carry any weight in the House. - No, it's full of men. 18 00:01:53,895 --> 00:01:59,492 - Thank you. Anything else you'd like to ask? - Just one last question. 19 00:01:59,655 --> 00:02:04,171 As a minister with all this power, what have you personally achieved? 20 00:02:04,335 --> 00:02:07,054 Achieved? Oh, well, all sorts of things. 21 00:02:07,215 --> 00:02:10,924 Membership of the Privy Council, the Party Policy Committee... 22 00:02:11,095 --> 00:02:14,804 No, things you've done that makes life better for other people. 23 00:02:15,655 --> 00:02:18,374 - Makes life better? - Yes. 24 00:02:18,535 --> 00:02:22,244 For other people? There must be a number of things. 25 00:02:22,415 --> 00:02:26,966 That's what one's job is all about. 18 hours a day, 7 days a week. 26 00:02:28,255 --> 00:02:30,246 Could you give me examples? 27 00:02:30,415 --> 00:02:33,407 - Makes it a bit boring otherwise. - Examples. 28 00:02:33,575 --> 00:02:38,569 Difficult to know where to start. So much of government is collective decisions. 29 00:02:38,735 --> 00:02:43,570 All of us together, best minds in the country, hammering it out. 30 00:02:43,735 --> 00:02:47,887 But what will you look back on afterwards and say "I did that." 31 00:02:48,055 --> 00:02:51,843 You know, like a writer can look at his books. 32 00:02:52,015 --> 00:02:56,850 Government is a complex business. So many people have to have their say. 33 00:02:57,015 --> 00:03:02,612 These things take time. Rome wasn't built in a day... Good heavens, is that the time? 34 00:03:02,775 --> 00:03:06,245 I really must be getting my boxes. Excuse me. 35 00:03:06,415 --> 00:03:09,407 - Oh, thank you. - Thank you so much. 36 00:03:09,575 --> 00:03:14,774 Such fun, having this little talk. And you'll let me approve the article, as we agreed? 37 00:03:14,935 --> 00:03:16,926 - Bye. - Bye. 38 00:03:23,135 --> 00:03:24,727 Bright kid. 39 00:03:24,895 --> 00:03:29,685 Last interview I give for a school magazine. She asked some difficult questions. 40 00:03:29,855 --> 00:03:34,645 Just innocent. She assumed there was some moral basis to your activities. 41 00:03:34,815 --> 00:03:37,568 - Well, there is. - Oh, Jim, don't be silly! 42 00:03:41,215 --> 00:03:43,524 - (SIGHS) - What are you sighing for? 43 00:03:44,295 --> 00:03:46,286 I'm not sighing. 44 00:03:48,335 --> 00:03:49,927 (SIGHS) 45 00:03:50,095 --> 00:03:54,691 - Out with it. - Well, what have I achieved? She's right. 46 00:03:54,855 --> 00:03:58,564 - It really does make you humble! - I can't get any bills through. 47 00:03:58,735 --> 00:04:02,933 - The time's taken up for the next two years. - Reform the Civil Service. 48 00:04:03,095 --> 00:04:05,290 - Impossible. Catch 22. - Why? 49 00:04:05,455 --> 00:04:10,370 Supposing I suggested 50 terrific reforms, who would have to implement them? 50 00:04:10,535 --> 00:04:12,526 (BOTH) The Civil Service. 51 00:04:12,695 --> 00:04:15,004 All right, I tell you what. 52 00:04:15,175 --> 00:04:17,769 Not 50 reforms, just one. 53 00:04:18,455 --> 00:04:19,934 Huh! What? 54 00:04:20,095 --> 00:04:23,485 If you achieve one import reform, that'd be something. 55 00:04:23,655 --> 00:04:26,647 Get me in the record books! What do you suggest? 56 00:04:26,815 --> 00:04:29,488 Make them put more women into top jobs. 57 00:04:29,655 --> 00:04:33,853 Women are half the population, they should be half the Permanent Secretaries. 58 00:04:34,015 --> 00:04:38,008 - How many women are there at the top? - Not many. 59 00:04:38,175 --> 00:04:40,643 Equal opportunities. 60 00:04:40,815 --> 00:04:45,445 I'll have a go. After all, there's a principle at stake. 61 00:04:45,615 --> 00:04:48,687 You're going to do something out of pure principle? 62 00:04:48,855 --> 00:04:50,732 - Yes. - Oh, Jim. 63 00:04:50,895 --> 00:04:53,250 Principles are excellent vote winners. 64 00:04:57,055 --> 00:05:01,094 - We don't have to do anything? - No. Paragraphs 1 and 2 are wrong. 65 00:05:01,255 --> 00:05:03,974 And all the other points are covered. 66 00:05:04,135 --> 00:05:08,128 I don't have to make a decision. I don't even have to apologise. 67 00:05:08,295 --> 00:05:11,014 - Can you do a reply for me? - Done it. 68 00:05:11,175 --> 00:05:15,566 Fantastic. Why don't they make more Under-Secretaries like you? 69 00:05:15,735 --> 00:05:18,010 - Anything else, Minister? - No. 70 00:05:18,175 --> 00:05:23,454 Tell me, Sarah, how many women are there at the top of the Civil Service? 71 00:05:23,615 --> 00:05:27,449 No Permanent Secretaries. Four out of 150 Deputy Secretaries. 72 00:05:27,615 --> 00:05:31,210 - What about your grade? Under-Secretary? - There are 27 of us. 73 00:05:31,375 --> 00:05:34,173 - Doesn't sound too bad. Out of how many? - 578. 74 00:05:35,895 --> 00:05:41,288 - But that's appalling! Aren't you appalled? - Not really. I find it comic. 75 00:05:41,455 --> 00:05:47,212 But then I find most of the Civil Service comic. It's run by men, after all. 76 00:05:48,495 --> 00:05:51,055 What can you? What can I do? 77 00:05:51,215 --> 00:05:53,206 - Are you serious, Minister? - Yes. 78 00:05:53,375 --> 00:05:58,733 It's easy. Bring top women from the professions, commerce, industry, straight into the top grades. 79 00:05:58,895 --> 00:06:05,050 The pay is good for women. Long holidays, pensions. You'd get high-quality applicants. 80 00:06:05,215 --> 00:06:08,048 - And they could do the job? - Of course. 81 00:06:08,215 --> 00:06:12,049 With respect, if you can make a journalist MP into a minister, 82 00:06:12,215 --> 00:06:17,209 why can't you make a senior partner from a legal firm into an Under-Secretary? 83 00:06:17,375 --> 00:06:21,573 Most of the work here only needs about two O-levels, anyway. 84 00:06:22,935 --> 00:06:26,723 - Good point. Sarah, thank you very much. - Thank you, Minister. 85 00:06:31,815 --> 00:06:34,807 - You rang, Minister? - Bernard, Sarah told... 86 00:06:34,975 --> 00:06:38,365 - Yes, Minister? - I wish you'd call me Jim when we're alone. 87 00:06:38,535 --> 00:06:41,333 Oh, I'll try to remember that, Minister. 88 00:06:41,495 --> 00:06:44,567 Sarah tells me this complaint is nonsense. 89 00:06:44,735 --> 00:06:48,694 - Oh, fine. So we can CGSM it. - CGSM? 90 00:06:48,855 --> 00:06:53,610 Civil service code. It stands for Consignment of Geriatric Shoe Manufacturers. 91 00:06:55,415 --> 00:06:58,009 Load of old cobblers, Minister. 92 00:06:59,335 --> 00:07:05,365 I'm not a civil servant. I shall use my own code. I shall write "round objects". 93 00:07:08,295 --> 00:07:12,493 Ah, Minister, you wanted a word about staffing? 94 00:07:12,655 --> 00:07:15,647 - Yes, Humphrey. - Morning, Bernard. 95 00:07:15,815 --> 00:07:17,806 I've made a policy decision. 96 00:07:17,975 --> 00:07:22,491 I'm going to do something about the number of women in the Civil Service. 97 00:07:22,655 --> 00:07:25,249 Surely there aren't all that many. 98 00:07:26,535 --> 00:07:29,811 - That's my point. - The Minister thinks we need more. 99 00:07:29,975 --> 00:07:31,772 - Many more. - More? 100 00:07:31,935 --> 00:07:38,249 We're quite well up to establishment on typists, cleaners and tea ladies. Any ideas, Bernard? 101 00:07:38,415 --> 00:07:44,012 - We are a bit short on temporary secretaries. - I'm talking about Permanent Secretaries. 102 00:07:45,295 --> 00:07:48,128 - Permanent... - We need female mandarins. 103 00:07:48,295 --> 00:07:50,286 Sort of satsumas, Minister. 104 00:07:52,855 --> 00:07:55,164 Sit down, will you, Bernard. 105 00:07:55,335 --> 00:07:58,372 - How many Permanent Secretaries are there? - 41, I believe. 106 00:07:58,535 --> 00:08:02,528 - And how many of those are women? - Well, broadly speaking... 107 00:08:02,695 --> 00:08:05,368 Not having the figures to hand, I'm not sure. 108 00:08:05,535 --> 00:08:08,003 - Approximately. - Approximately... none. 109 00:08:09,455 --> 00:08:14,449 None. And I understand there are about 150 Deputy Secretaries. How many are women? 110 00:08:14,615 --> 00:08:16,845 - Well, it's difficult to say. - Why? 111 00:08:17,015 --> 00:08:19,927 There's a lot of old women among the men. 112 00:08:21,775 --> 00:08:25,211 - Four. - Are there really? 113 00:08:25,375 --> 00:08:30,369 I'm going to announce a quota of 25% women Deputy Secretaries and Permanent Secretaries 114 00:08:30,535 --> 00:08:32,526 to be achieved in four years. 115 00:08:32,695 --> 00:08:37,291 Wait a minute, Minister. I'm obviously in total sympathy with your objectives. 116 00:08:37,455 --> 00:08:40,413 - Obviously. - Of course we must have more women. 117 00:08:40,575 --> 00:08:44,932 Of course! All of us are deeply concerned by this apparent imbalance, 118 00:08:45,095 --> 00:08:47,086 but these things take time. 119 00:08:47,255 --> 00:08:50,452 - I want to make a start straight away. - I agree. 120 00:08:50,615 --> 00:08:55,086 I propose we make a start by setting up an inter-departmental committee... 121 00:08:55,255 --> 00:08:58,804 No, no, no. That's not what I meant and you know it. 122 00:08:58,975 --> 00:09:03,332 No delays. This needs a sledgehammer. We must cut through the red tape. 123 00:09:03,495 --> 00:09:08,410 - You can't cut tape with a sledgehammer... - You know what I mean. 124 00:09:08,575 --> 00:09:12,614 Minister, you do me an injustice. I was not about to suggest delays. 125 00:09:12,775 --> 00:09:15,243 - Oh, sorry. - That's all right. 126 00:09:15,415 --> 00:09:18,407 I suggest that, if we are to have 25% quota, 127 00:09:18,575 --> 00:09:24,411 we need a larger intake at the recruitment stage so eventually there'll be 25% in the top jobs. 128 00:09:24,575 --> 00:09:26,850 - When? - (BOTH) In 25 years. 129 00:09:27,015 --> 00:09:30,803 No, Humphrey, you haven't quite got my drift. I mean NOW. 130 00:09:33,655 --> 00:09:37,250 - Oh... you mean, NOW? - Got it in one, Humphrey. 131 00:09:38,295 --> 00:09:40,684 It takes time to do things NOW. 132 00:09:42,655 --> 00:09:46,648 The three articles of Civil Service faith: It takes longer to do things quickly; 133 00:09:46,815 --> 00:09:51,570 it's more expensive to do them cheaply and more democratic to do them in secret. 134 00:09:51,735 --> 00:09:54,647 I have suggested four years. Masses of time. 135 00:09:54,815 --> 00:09:58,012 Oh, dear me, no! 136 00:09:58,175 --> 00:10:01,770 I don't mean political time, I mean real time. 137 00:10:01,935 --> 00:10:07,567 Civil servants are grown like... like oak trees, not mustard and cress. 138 00:10:10,095 --> 00:10:14,532 They bloom and ripen with the seasons, they mature like... 139 00:10:15,255 --> 00:10:18,884 - Like yourself. - Well, I was about to say like an old port. 140 00:10:19,655 --> 00:10:22,647 Like Grimsby, perhaps. 141 00:10:23,975 --> 00:10:28,366 - Yes, I was being serious, Minister. - I foresaw this problem. 142 00:10:28,535 --> 00:10:33,131 I propose we solve it by bringing in top women from outside the service 143 00:10:33,295 --> 00:10:35,365 to fill vacancies in the top jobs. 144 00:10:35,535 --> 00:10:36,934 I... 145 00:10:38,055 --> 00:10:42,253 - I don't think I quite understood. - Watch my mouth, Humphrey. 146 00:10:42,415 --> 00:10:45,532 We will bring in women from outside. 147 00:10:45,695 --> 00:10:50,689 But the strength of the system is that it is pure and unsullied by outside influences. 148 00:10:50,855 --> 00:10:53,847 People move jobs. Why should the Civil Service be different? 149 00:10:54,015 --> 00:10:56,609 It IS different. It demands subtlety. 150 00:10:56,775 --> 00:10:58,572 - Discretion. - Devotion to duty. 151 00:10:58,735 --> 00:11:02,045 - Soundness. - Soundness! Well said, Bernard! 152 00:11:02,215 --> 00:11:06,845 Civil servants require endless patience and boundless understanding. 153 00:11:07,015 --> 00:11:10,405 They need to be able to change horses mid-stream, 154 00:11:10,575 --> 00:11:13,806 as politicians change what they call their minds. 155 00:11:13,975 --> 00:11:18,048 - You have these talents? - Well, it is just that one's been properly... 156 00:11:18,215 --> 00:11:20,365 - Matured. Like Grimsby. - Trained. 157 00:11:22,135 --> 00:11:25,252 Ask yourself if there isn't something wrong with the system. 158 00:11:25,415 --> 00:11:29,806 - Why are there so few women deputies? - They keep leaving to have babies. 159 00:11:29,975 --> 00:11:33,968 - At nearly 50? Surely not. - I don't know. I'm on your side. 160 00:11:34,135 --> 00:11:38,128 - We do need more women at the top. - I'm not waiting 25 years. 161 00:11:38,295 --> 00:11:42,288 - There's a vacancy for Deputy Secretary here. - Ye-es. 162 00:11:42,455 --> 00:11:46,733 - I shall appoint a woman. Sarah Harrison. - Sarah Harrison?! 163 00:11:46,895 --> 00:11:51,013 - I think she's very able, don't you? - Very. For a woman, for a person. 164 00:11:51,175 --> 00:11:53,405 And she is an original thinker. 165 00:11:53,575 --> 00:11:57,773 Yes, that's true, but she doesn't let it interfere with her work. 166 00:11:57,935 --> 00:12:01,484 - What have you got against her? - Nothing. She's excellent. 167 00:12:01,655 --> 00:12:03,452 I'm a supporter of hers. 168 00:12:03,615 --> 00:12:07,927 I advocated her promotion to Under-Secretary at a very early age. 169 00:12:08,095 --> 00:12:11,292 - Would you agree that she is outstanding? - Yes. 170 00:12:11,455 --> 00:12:15,926 - So, on balance, it is a good idea? - On balance... yes and no. 171 00:12:17,295 --> 00:12:20,685 - That's not a very clear answer. - It's a balanced answer. 172 00:12:20,855 --> 00:12:24,245 The point is she's too young and it's not her turn. 173 00:12:24,415 --> 00:12:29,614 I knew you'd say that! This is exactly what's wrong with the Civil Service - Buggins' turn! 174 00:12:29,775 --> 00:12:34,371 - The best people should be promoted! - Exactly! As soon as it's their turn! 175 00:12:34,535 --> 00:12:38,926 Oh, nonsense! Napoleon ruled Europe when he was in his 30s! 176 00:12:39,095 --> 00:12:43,611 - Alexander conquered the world in his 20s. - They'd have made poor Deputy Secretaries. 177 00:12:43,775 --> 00:12:47,324 - They didn't wait their turn! - And look what happened to them. 178 00:12:47,495 --> 00:12:49,486 And look what's happened to us! 179 00:12:49,655 --> 00:12:53,887 Instead of being run by a lot of young, able, energetic men, 180 00:12:54,055 --> 00:12:59,049 this country's being run by tired, cynical 55-year-olds who just want a quiet life! 181 00:13:00,535 --> 00:13:03,208 Had you anyone specific in mind? 182 00:13:05,495 --> 00:13:07,645 Yes and no, Humphrey. 183 00:13:08,895 --> 00:13:14,891 Oh, Minister, Sarah Harrison is an excellent civil servant and a bright hope for the future, 184 00:13:15,055 --> 00:13:20,175 but she is our most junior Under-Secretary and I will not recommend her promotion. 185 00:13:20,335 --> 00:13:24,487 - I think you're a sexist. - Minister, how could you say such a thing? 186 00:13:24,655 --> 00:13:28,204 I'm very pro-women. Wonderful people, women. 187 00:13:29,335 --> 00:13:32,930 Sarah is a dear lady. I'm one of her greatest admirers. 188 00:13:33,095 --> 00:13:39,204 But, if the cause of women is to be advanced, it must be done with care, tact and discretion. 189 00:13:39,375 --> 00:13:45,371 She is our only woman contender for a top job. We mustn't push her too fast. 190 00:13:45,535 --> 00:13:49,414 - Women find top jobs very difficult. - Can you hear yourself? 191 00:13:49,575 --> 00:13:55,571 If women could be good Permanent Secretaries, there would be more of them. Stands to reason. 192 00:13:55,735 --> 00:13:58,966 - No... - I'm not anti-feminist! I love women! 193 00:13:59,135 --> 00:14:02,332 Some of my best friends are women! 194 00:14:03,575 --> 00:14:05,372 Er... my wife, indeed. 195 00:14:07,775 --> 00:14:12,769 But Sarah is as yet very inexperienced and her children are still of school age. 196 00:14:12,935 --> 00:14:15,768 - They might get mumps! - You might get shingles! 197 00:14:15,935 --> 00:14:21,487 I might indeed if you continue in this vein. What if her children caused her to miss work? 198 00:14:21,655 --> 00:14:26,445 Would she have reached Under-Secretary in that case? She is the best person! 199 00:14:26,615 --> 00:14:29,812 If you promote women just because they're the best person, 200 00:14:29,975 --> 00:14:33,888 you will create a lot of resentment throughout the Civil Service! 201 00:14:34,055 --> 00:14:38,048 - Not from the women in it. - Well, that hardly matters, does it? 202 00:14:39,295 --> 00:14:40,933 Hardly matters? 203 00:14:42,375 --> 00:14:44,935 There are so few of them. 204 00:14:49,055 --> 00:14:52,650 I've told him women are different, but he can't grasp it. 205 00:14:52,815 --> 00:14:55,204 They put such strains on a team. 206 00:14:55,375 --> 00:14:59,414 They react differently. They're so emotional. Not rational like us. 207 00:14:59,575 --> 00:15:05,252 No. It's hopeless when you tell them off. Either they get into a frightful bate or start blubbing. 208 00:15:05,415 --> 00:15:09,647 And if they're not the sort who blub, they become frightfully hard and butch. 209 00:15:09,815 --> 00:15:11,806 Not the least bit attractive. 210 00:15:12,975 --> 00:15:16,172 - They're full of prejudices. - Make silly generalisations. 211 00:15:17,295 --> 00:15:21,493 - They think in stereotypes. - (BOTH) Mmm. 212 00:15:21,655 --> 00:15:24,374 Arnold, what do you think I should do? 213 00:15:24,535 --> 00:15:28,528 Lecture him at such length on the matter that he becomes bored 214 00:15:28,695 --> 00:15:30,731 and loses interest in the idea. 215 00:15:30,895 --> 00:15:34,888 Yes, might work. Mind you, he doesn't get bored easily. 216 00:15:35,055 --> 00:15:38,252 - He even finds himself interesting. - They all do. 217 00:15:38,415 --> 00:15:43,205 - All the ones who listen to what we're saying. - Not many of those. 218 00:15:43,375 --> 00:15:47,368 The standard second ploy is to tell him the unions won't wear it. 219 00:15:47,535 --> 00:15:50,254 - They'd like it. - That's beside the point. 220 00:15:50,415 --> 00:15:54,931 - Oh, yes, sorry. - What does his wife think about all this? 221 00:15:55,095 --> 00:15:59,691 I gather she's in favour of promoting Harrison. In fact, she may be behind it. 222 00:15:59,855 --> 00:16:05,293 I see. Does she know that Sarah Harrison is rather attractive? 223 00:16:05,895 --> 00:16:08,284 No, I don't think they've ever met... 224 00:16:11,855 --> 00:16:13,846 Good idea. 225 00:16:14,015 --> 00:16:17,325 We must mobilise the Cabinet against this quota nonsense. 226 00:16:17,495 --> 00:16:21,693 - They'll be in favour of it. - We can get them to change their minds. 227 00:16:21,855 --> 00:16:26,087 - They change their minds fairly easily. - Just like a lot of women! 228 00:16:26,255 --> 00:16:28,405 Thank God they don't blub! 229 00:16:31,015 --> 00:16:34,769 Minister, I have come to the conclusion that you were right. 230 00:16:37,535 --> 00:16:40,129 - Are you being serious? - Yes, indeed. 231 00:16:40,295 --> 00:16:46,325 I have taken your ideas on board and I am now positively against discrimination against women 232 00:16:46,495 --> 00:16:51,285 and in favour of positive discrimination - discriminating discrimination, of course. 233 00:16:52,775 --> 00:16:54,766 Yes... I think I've got that. 234 00:16:54,935 --> 00:16:58,689 The view is, at the very highest level, that this should happen. 235 00:16:58,855 --> 00:17:01,323 - Good. - However... 236 00:17:02,255 --> 00:17:07,329 There is a problem about the quota. Mind if I sit down? The unions won't wear it. 237 00:17:07,975 --> 00:17:11,968 - Really? Let's have 'em in. We'll talk about it. - Er... no, Minister. 238 00:17:12,135 --> 00:17:16,094 - That would... just stir up a hornets' nest. - Why? 239 00:17:18,255 --> 00:17:22,806 Well, if I might suggest... that we be realistic about this. 240 00:17:22,975 --> 00:17:27,526 - By realistic, you mean drop the whole scheme. - Oh, dear me, no! 241 00:17:27,695 --> 00:17:30,414 But, perhaps, a pause to re-group. 242 00:17:30,575 --> 00:17:35,012 A lull in which to reassess the situation and discuss alternative strategies. 243 00:17:35,175 --> 00:17:37,928 A space of time for reflection and deliberation. 244 00:17:38,935 --> 00:17:41,529 You mean drop the whole scheme. 245 00:17:41,695 --> 00:17:45,290 No, I've set my hand to the plough, I've made the decision. 246 00:17:45,455 --> 00:17:49,448 We shall have a 25% quota of women within the next four years 247 00:17:49,615 --> 00:17:52,607 and, to make a start, I shall appoint Sarah Harrison. 248 00:17:52,775 --> 00:17:56,973 - I promise you, that is the wrong decision. - Principle, Humphrey, principle. 249 00:17:57,135 --> 00:18:02,084 I'm sure my Cabinet colleagues will support me. There's a lot of votes in women's rights. 250 00:18:02,255 --> 00:18:06,043 Votes? I thought you said it was a matter of principle. 251 00:18:08,975 --> 00:18:11,569 For ME. I was talking about them. 252 00:18:11,735 --> 00:18:13,612 - (PHONE RINGS) - Yes? 253 00:18:13,775 --> 00:18:15,766 - Mrs Hacker's here. - Send her in. 254 00:18:15,935 --> 00:18:20,326 Could she come in? Could you sign the letters before you go, Minister? 255 00:18:20,495 --> 00:18:23,726 - Hello. Get Humphrey to give you a drink. - Sherry? 256 00:18:25,135 --> 00:18:28,332 Remember that letter you wrote "round objects" on? 257 00:18:28,495 --> 00:18:31,089 Sir Humphrey has commented on it. 258 00:18:31,255 --> 00:18:35,646 - What's he say? - "Who is Round and to what does he object?" 259 00:18:38,615 --> 00:18:41,334 Here you are. Your very good health. 260 00:18:41,495 --> 00:18:45,090 Yes, it's a slow business changing the Civil Service. 261 00:18:45,255 --> 00:18:48,247 What about promoting this woman Jim was talking about? 262 00:18:48,415 --> 00:18:54,012 Oh, yes, well... your husband certainly has an eye for talent and Sarah's very talented. 263 00:18:54,175 --> 00:18:57,167 - Quite delightful, real charmer. Cheers. - Really? 264 00:18:57,335 --> 00:19:01,487 I very much admire this new generation of women civil servants 265 00:19:01,655 --> 00:19:04,453 compared to the old battle-axes I remember! 266 00:19:05,855 --> 00:19:12,010 Of course, they're not all as beautiful as Sarah, but... they do manage to keep their femininity. 267 00:19:12,175 --> 00:19:17,647 - Jim never discussed what she looks like. - Oh, well, perhaps he hasn't noticed. 268 00:19:17,815 --> 00:19:22,411 I find that hard to believe. He does spend a lot of time with her. 269 00:19:22,575 --> 00:19:26,011 And even more... if she's promoted. Shall we sit down? 270 00:19:28,495 --> 00:19:34,092 And so, gentlemen, my minister is set on creating a quota of 25% women, 271 00:19:34,255 --> 00:19:36,450 leading to an eventual 50%. 272 00:19:36,615 --> 00:19:39,368 - Parity, I see. - Yes. Mm. 273 00:19:39,535 --> 00:19:44,563 It seems right and proper to me that men and women be treated fairly and equally. 274 00:19:44,735 --> 00:19:48,284 I speak for all of us when I say that, in principle, 275 00:19:48,455 --> 00:19:51,333 there should be such targets set and goals achieved. 276 00:19:51,495 --> 00:19:53,292 (MURMURS OF AGREEMENT) 277 00:19:53,455 --> 00:19:57,573 - Bill? - Well, I'm fully in favour of this idea. 278 00:19:57,735 --> 00:20:01,330 We must have positive discrimination in favour of women. 279 00:20:01,495 --> 00:20:04,089 It wouldn't work with the Foreign Office. 280 00:20:04,255 --> 00:20:08,043 We couldn't post women ambassadors to Iran or Muslim nations. 281 00:20:08,215 --> 00:20:13,414 - No, quite, quite. - The Third World is not so advanced as us. 282 00:20:13,575 --> 00:20:18,171 And as we have to send diplomats to new postings every three years, 283 00:20:18,335 --> 00:20:22,408 this idea is obviously not for us, but I do approve the principle. 284 00:20:24,535 --> 00:20:26,526 - Neil? - I'm in favour of it. 285 00:20:26,695 --> 00:20:29,084 I think we need the feminine touch. 286 00:20:29,255 --> 00:20:33,646 Women are better at handling some problems than men. No doubt about it. 287 00:20:33,815 --> 00:20:37,603 We would have to make an exception in the Home Office. 288 00:20:37,775 --> 00:20:41,563 Women are not the right people to run prisons or the police. 289 00:20:41,735 --> 00:20:44,772 Quite probably, they wouldn't want to do it, anyway. 290 00:20:44,935 --> 00:20:49,133 - But you do agree with the principle? - Oh, yes, without question. 291 00:20:49,295 --> 00:20:53,254 - Peter? - Yes, the same applies to Defence... alas. 292 00:20:53,415 --> 00:20:55,406 All those admirals and generals. 293 00:20:55,575 --> 00:20:59,966 It wouldn't be possible to appoint a woman as Head of Security. 294 00:21:00,135 --> 00:21:02,695 M would have to become F. 295 00:21:05,215 --> 00:21:09,606 Yes, Defence is clearly a man's world, like Industry and Employment. 296 00:21:09,775 --> 00:21:12,494 All those trade union leaders! 297 00:21:12,655 --> 00:21:14,850 But what about the DHSS? John? 298 00:21:15,015 --> 00:21:19,213 I'm happy to say woman are well represented near the top of the DHSS. 299 00:21:19,375 --> 00:21:23,493 After all, we have two of the four Deputy Secretaries in Whitehall. 300 00:21:24,695 --> 00:21:29,485 Not eligible for Permanent Secretary because they're Deputy Chief Medical Officers. 301 00:21:29,655 --> 00:21:33,807 I'm not sure they're really suitable. No, that's unfair. 302 00:21:33,975 --> 00:21:38,969 Of course, women are 80% of our clerical staff and 99% of the typing grades. 303 00:21:39,135 --> 00:21:44,209 We're not doing too badly. In principle, I'm in favour of them going to the top. 304 00:21:44,375 --> 00:21:45,774 Good, good. 305 00:21:45,935 --> 00:21:50,167 The feeling of the meeting is, in principle, that we're all in favour 306 00:21:50,335 --> 00:21:52,530 of equal rights for the ladies, 307 00:21:52,695 --> 00:21:56,290 but there are special problems in individual departments. 308 00:21:56,455 --> 00:22:00,164 - (ALL) Hear hear! - What about this question of the quota? 309 00:22:00,335 --> 00:22:03,850 - Frankly, I'm against it. - (ALL) Oh, yes, not on! 310 00:22:04,015 --> 00:22:09,009 We must, in my view, have the right to promote the best man for the job, 311 00:22:09,175 --> 00:22:11,735 regardless of sex. 312 00:22:13,095 --> 00:22:15,689 Speaking as an ardent feminist myself, 313 00:22:15,855 --> 00:22:20,053 I think the problem lies in recruiting the right sort of women. 314 00:22:20,215 --> 00:22:22,604 Married women with families drop out 315 00:22:22,775 --> 00:22:26,768 because they cannot give their work their full, single-minded attention. 316 00:22:26,935 --> 00:22:28,926 Unmarried women with no children 317 00:22:29,095 --> 00:22:33,611 are not fully-rounded people with a thorough understanding of life. 318 00:22:34,535 --> 00:22:39,006 So, in practice, it's rarely possible to find a fully-rounded married woman, 319 00:22:39,175 --> 00:22:45,444 with a happy home and three children, prepared to devote virtually her whole life to a department. 320 00:22:45,615 --> 00:22:50,848 It's Catch 22, really. Well, Catch 22, sub-paragraph A! 321 00:22:52,375 --> 00:22:57,768 I think we must ensure that our respective ministers oppose this quota idea in Cabinet 322 00:22:57,935 --> 00:23:02,929 by drawing our own minister's attention to each department's special problems. 323 00:23:03,095 --> 00:23:07,566 But we will recommend the principle of equal opportunities at every level. 324 00:23:07,735 --> 00:23:09,726 (MURMURS OF AGREEMENT) 325 00:23:09,895 --> 00:23:12,125 May I suggest one more thing? 326 00:23:12,295 --> 00:23:18,291 My minister sees the promotion of women as a means of creating greater diversity 327 00:23:18,455 --> 00:23:20,446 at the top of the service. 328 00:23:20,615 --> 00:23:26,884 We should stress to our ministers that, frankly, you couldn't find a more diverse lot than us. 329 00:23:27,055 --> 00:23:32,129 - (ALL) Absolutely! - A real cross-section of the nation. 330 00:23:37,255 --> 00:23:39,849 Ah, Minister, how was Cabinet? 331 00:23:41,895 --> 00:23:44,363 - Bit odd, actually. - Why? 332 00:23:44,535 --> 00:23:47,925 We were talking about the top jobs quota for women. 333 00:23:48,095 --> 00:23:50,814 - Was it agreed? - That's what's so odd. 334 00:23:50,975 --> 00:23:56,572 They all agreed in principle, but then said it wouldn't work in their own departments. 335 00:23:56,735 --> 00:23:59,568 - They didn't support me at all. - Extraordinary. 336 00:23:59,735 --> 00:24:02,568 And I'm not getting support from Annie. 337 00:24:02,735 --> 00:24:06,648 - Really? What, about this quota? - Well, about promoting Sarah. 338 00:24:06,815 --> 00:24:09,613 - You'd think she'd be 100% behind it. - Indeed. 339 00:24:09,775 --> 00:24:12,892 She goes sort of distant when I mention it. 340 00:24:13,055 --> 00:24:16,525 - Dead against it now. - Even more extraordinary. 341 00:24:16,695 --> 00:24:19,289 Oh, well, seems the only thing left. 342 00:24:19,455 --> 00:24:22,288 - Something I can achieve. - Yes, indeed. 343 00:24:22,455 --> 00:24:27,051 Shall I ask Mrs Harrison to come in? Bernard, would you be kind enough? 344 00:24:27,655 --> 00:24:31,125 At least this is something I can say I have done. 345 00:24:31,295 --> 00:24:33,126 - Indeed. - Lighting a spark. 346 00:24:33,295 --> 00:24:35,490 Carrying a torch, even. 347 00:24:37,975 --> 00:24:40,364 Ah, Sarah, do sit down. 348 00:24:40,535 --> 00:24:42,526 - Thank you. - Humphrey. 349 00:24:43,615 --> 00:24:48,609 Sarah, as you know, there is a vacancy for a Deputy Secretary in this department. 350 00:24:48,775 --> 00:24:51,767 In spite of you being the most junior Under-Secretary, 351 00:24:51,935 --> 00:24:54,529 but because you are the outstanding person, 352 00:24:54,695 --> 00:24:59,894 Sir Humphrey and I will recommend you for promotion to the grade of Deputy Secretary. 353 00:25:02,615 --> 00:25:04,845 I... I don't know what to say. 354 00:25:05,015 --> 00:25:09,327 - No need to say anything. - A single thank you should suffice. 355 00:25:10,775 --> 00:25:13,767 No... Well... I mean... 356 00:25:13,935 --> 00:25:17,928 Oh, gosh. Look, this is awfully embarrassing. I mean... 357 00:25:18,095 --> 00:25:23,123 Well, I was going to tell you this week. I'm resigning from the Civil Service. 358 00:25:24,215 --> 00:25:26,206 - What? - Resigning? 359 00:25:26,855 --> 00:25:30,086 Yes, so... thank you, but no, thank you. 360 00:25:31,495 --> 00:25:36,046 - Some problem at home with your children? - Mumps? 361 00:25:37,655 --> 00:25:40,852 No, I'm joining a merchant bank... as a director. 362 00:25:41,895 --> 00:25:46,093 Sarah... I won't conceal from you the fact that this is a blow. 363 00:25:46,255 --> 00:25:49,372 The reason Humphrey and I decided to recommend you 364 00:25:49,535 --> 00:25:54,928 is that I've been fighting a losing battle to improve promotion prospects for women. 365 00:25:55,095 --> 00:25:58,326 You were to be my, so to speak, Trojan horse. 366 00:26:00,095 --> 00:26:04,486 Quite honestly, Minister, I want a job where I don't spend endless hours 367 00:26:04,655 --> 00:26:10,252 circulating information about subjects that don't matter to people who aren't interested. 368 00:26:12,455 --> 00:26:18,052 I want a job where there's achievement rather than merely activity. I'm tired of pushing paper. 369 00:26:18,215 --> 00:26:21,730 I want to point to something and say "I did that." 370 00:26:21,895 --> 00:26:24,489 I don't understand. 371 00:26:25,455 --> 00:26:27,446 I know. That's why I'm leaving. 372 00:26:29,095 --> 00:26:31,484 You're not saying the government is unimportant? 373 00:26:31,655 --> 00:26:35,933 No, it's very important. It's just that I haven't met anyone who's doing it. 374 00:26:39,455 --> 00:26:42,652 Also I've had enough of the pointless intrigue. 375 00:26:42,815 --> 00:26:46,012 - Intrigue? - You know the sort of thing. 376 00:26:46,175 --> 00:26:51,169 Like this women's rights nonsense. Your using me as a Trojan horse, for instance. 377 00:26:51,335 --> 00:26:55,328 They probably said the unions wouldn't wear it if you promoted me. 378 00:26:55,495 --> 00:27:00,125 - How did you know that? - I didn't. I just know how things are done. 379 00:27:01,455 --> 00:27:04,447 You don't realise I've fought quite a battle for you. 380 00:27:04,615 --> 00:27:08,654 Oh, have you? I didn't ask you to fight a battle for me. 381 00:27:08,815 --> 00:27:11,887 I'm not pleased at being part of a 25% quota. 382 00:27:12,055 --> 00:27:16,571 Women are not inferior beings and I don't enjoy being patronised. 383 00:27:17,775 --> 00:27:22,371 I'm afraid you're just as paternalist and chauvinist as the rest of them. 384 00:27:23,935 --> 00:27:28,451 I'm going somewhere where I shall be accepted an equal, as a person. 385 00:27:28,615 --> 00:27:30,845 You can't win, can you? 386 00:27:31,855 --> 00:27:35,245 - May I go now? - Hm? Yes, of course. 387 00:27:37,655 --> 00:27:41,364 I'm sorry I offended you, though I can't remember how I did. 388 00:27:41,535 --> 00:27:42,934 No. 389 00:27:43,095 --> 00:27:47,327 And thank you. I know you both mean well. 390 00:27:56,735 --> 00:27:59,613 Women! 391 00:27:59,775 --> 00:28:01,493 Yes, Minister. 392 00:29:26,349 --> 00:29:30,137 The main news this Thursday pm is the big government re-shuffle. 393 00:29:30,309 --> 00:29:33,301 I have with me, to discuss his new empire, 394 00:29:33,469 --> 00:29:37,860 the Minister for Administrative Affairs, the Right Honourable James Hacker. 395 00:29:38,029 --> 00:29:42,978 It's been said that you are now Mr Town Hall as well as Mr Whitehall. 396 00:29:43,149 --> 00:29:46,459 Well, it's very flattering of you to put it that way. 397 00:29:46,629 --> 00:29:50,622 It wasn't me who put it that way, it was the Daily Mirror. 398 00:29:51,629 --> 00:29:55,941 I just wanted to confirm that you are now this country's chief bureaucrat. 399 00:29:56,109 --> 00:30:00,261 That's nonsense. This government believes in reducing bureaucracy. 400 00:30:00,429 --> 00:30:05,423 Figures I have here say that your department's staff has risen by 10%. 401 00:30:05,589 --> 00:30:07,819 - Certainly not. - What figure do you have? 402 00:30:07,989 --> 00:30:12,267 I believe the figure is much more like 9.97. 403 00:30:12,429 --> 00:30:16,900 Well, it has been suggested that your department is less interested 404 00:30:17,069 --> 00:30:19,742 in reducing bureaucracy than in increasing it. 405 00:30:19,909 --> 00:30:26,508 Well, yes, but that's because we've had to take on more staff in order to reduce staff. 406 00:30:27,229 --> 00:30:29,618 - I beg your pardon? - It's common sense. 407 00:30:29,789 --> 00:30:34,783 We need more doctors to cure more patients, more firemen to extinguish more fires. 408 00:30:34,949 --> 00:30:37,907 How will you extinguish local government bureaucracy? 409 00:30:38,069 --> 00:30:40,299 It's a challenge I'm looking forward to. 410 00:30:40,469 --> 00:30:44,860 Would you agree there's even more bureaucratic waste there than in Whitehall? 411 00:30:45,029 --> 00:30:49,420 - Yes, that's what makes it a challenge. - How will you meet the challenge? 412 00:30:49,589 --> 00:30:54,709 It's far too early to give detailed proposals. I've just come here direct from Number 10. 413 00:30:54,869 --> 00:30:57,861 From number 9.97, perhaps! 414 00:30:59,829 --> 00:31:05,540 The broad strategy is to cut ruthlessly at waste while leaving essential services intact. 415 00:31:05,709 --> 00:31:09,258 That's what your predecessor said. Did he fail? 416 00:31:09,429 --> 00:31:15,504 Let me finish. Because we must be absolutely clear and I'm going to be quite frank with you. 417 00:31:17,269 --> 00:31:22,059 The fact is that, at the end of the day, it is the right, the duty, 418 00:31:22,229 --> 00:31:25,221 of the elected government in the House of Commons 419 00:31:25,389 --> 00:31:29,382 to ensure government policy, the policies on which we were elected 420 00:31:29,549 --> 00:31:34,145 and for which we have a mandate, the policies for which the people voted, 421 00:31:34,309 --> 00:31:39,906 are the policies which, finally, when the national cake has been divided up... 422 00:31:40,069 --> 00:31:45,063 And may I remind you we, as a nation, don't have unlimited wealth? 423 00:31:45,229 --> 00:31:47,982 We can't pay ourselves more than we earn. 424 00:31:48,149 --> 00:31:50,344 ...are the policies... 425 00:31:53,789 --> 00:31:57,179 I'm sorry, what was the question again? 426 00:31:57,349 --> 00:32:02,662 I was just asking you whether you would agree that your predecessor had failed. 427 00:32:02,829 --> 00:32:05,297 Certainly not. On the contrary. 428 00:32:05,469 --> 00:32:08,620 It's just that this job is an enormous... 429 00:32:09,309 --> 00:32:11,300 - Challenge? - Exactly! 430 00:32:14,429 --> 00:32:19,423 Incidentally, I heard your chap on the radio yesterday, Humpy. 431 00:32:19,589 --> 00:32:21,420 - Mm? - Mm. 432 00:32:22,469 --> 00:32:27,418 He sounded as if he wanted to DO things about your new local government remit. 433 00:32:27,589 --> 00:32:30,023 He kept calling it a challenge. 434 00:32:30,189 --> 00:32:31,986 - Congratulations. - Very kind. 435 00:32:32,149 --> 00:32:35,061 You may soon be even more important than Arnold! 436 00:32:35,229 --> 00:32:41,338 - Yes, I expect... Er, no, no, no, no, no. - I do want to be quite clear about this. 437 00:32:41,509 --> 00:32:46,105 I'd never have given you local government if I'd thought you'd let Hacker do anything. 438 00:32:46,269 --> 00:32:50,820 - He won't be able to. Nobody else has. - That's not the point, Humpy. 439 00:32:50,989 --> 00:32:55,380 We've found in the past that all local government reforms rebound on us. 440 00:32:55,549 --> 00:32:59,827 When anybody finds a way of saving money or cutting staff in local government, 441 00:32:59,989 --> 00:33:02,105 it works for Whitehall just as well. 442 00:33:02,269 --> 00:33:07,582 Yes, but local government is extravagant, overstaffed, incompetent, whereas we... 443 00:33:09,909 --> 00:33:13,504 - Exactly so. - I know my duty, Arnold. 444 00:33:14,389 --> 00:33:18,382 If he needs something to keep him busy, you know what to do? 445 00:33:18,549 --> 00:33:20,938 Get him to look into civil defence. 446 00:33:23,309 --> 00:33:26,028 - Civil defence? You mean fallout shelters? - Yes. 447 00:33:26,189 --> 00:33:30,387 Governments long ago decided civil defence was not a serious issue. 448 00:33:30,549 --> 00:33:32,346 Merely a desperate one! 449 00:33:33,909 --> 00:33:37,663 It's best left to those whose incompetence can be relied upon. 450 00:33:37,829 --> 00:33:39,820 Local authorities! 451 00:33:41,509 --> 00:33:45,297 But the highest duty of government is to protect its citizens. 452 00:33:45,469 --> 00:33:49,257 Presumably that's why they leave it to the borough councils! 453 00:33:56,229 --> 00:33:58,424 Thank you, gentlemen. 454 00:33:58,589 --> 00:34:04,380 Can I have a word about a proposal I worked out before we were transferred to this department? 455 00:34:04,549 --> 00:34:07,905 - And you are? - I am... what? 456 00:34:08,709 --> 00:34:12,179 - Yes, you are what? - What? 457 00:34:13,749 --> 00:34:17,185 - What? - I am Dr Cartwright. 458 00:34:17,349 --> 00:34:20,580 If I may put it another way, what are you? 459 00:34:23,069 --> 00:34:25,060 I'm C of E. 460 00:34:26,349 --> 00:34:30,342 The Minister means, what function do you perform in the department? 461 00:34:30,509 --> 00:34:34,707 - Don't you know? - Yes, I know, but the Minister wants to know. 462 00:34:34,869 --> 00:34:39,465 I'm a professional economist. Director of Local Administration Statistics. 463 00:34:39,629 --> 00:34:42,826 You ran the Local Authority Directorate before we took over. 464 00:34:42,989 --> 00:34:46,186 Dear me, no. Sir Gordon Reid was the Permanent Secretary. 465 00:34:46,349 --> 00:34:50,547 I'm just Under-Secretary rank. I fear I shall rise no higher. 466 00:34:50,709 --> 00:34:53,701 - Why not? - Alas, I'm an expert. 467 00:34:55,789 --> 00:34:58,303 - On what? - On the whole thing. 468 00:34:58,469 --> 00:35:01,506 - It's all in here. - What's this all about? 469 00:35:01,669 --> 00:35:03,944 Controlling council expenditure. 470 00:35:04,109 --> 00:35:08,102 I'm proposing that all council officials responsible for a new project 471 00:35:08,269 --> 00:35:11,466 list their criteria for failure before getting the go-ahead. 472 00:35:12,429 --> 00:35:17,423 - What do you mean? - It's a basic scientific approach. 473 00:35:17,589 --> 00:35:22,379 You must establish a method of measuring the success or failure of an experiment. 474 00:35:22,549 --> 00:35:25,905 When it's completed, you know if it's succeeded or failed. 475 00:35:27,749 --> 00:35:31,742 A proposer states "This scheme would fail if it lasts longer than this 476 00:35:31,909 --> 00:35:35,902 "or costs more than that, if it employs more staff than these 477 00:35:36,069 --> 00:35:38,458 "or fails to meet pre-set standards." 478 00:35:38,629 --> 00:35:43,828 - Fantastic! You could never make it work. - 'Course you can. It's all in there. 479 00:35:44,829 --> 00:35:48,617 This is my top priority reading. Why hasn't it been done before? 480 00:35:48,789 --> 00:35:53,783 I can't understand. I put it up several times and it was always welcomed most warmly. 481 00:35:53,949 --> 00:36:00,138 - But there was always something more urgent on. - Well, you've come to the right place this time. 482 00:36:00,309 --> 00:36:02,300 Thank you, Minister. 483 00:36:07,669 --> 00:36:11,025 This is marvellous, isn't it, Bernard? 484 00:36:12,549 --> 00:36:14,540 Isn't it, Bernard? 485 00:36:15,389 --> 00:36:20,941 Oh, yes. Well, it's... er... That is, it's... um... very well presented. 486 00:36:21,109 --> 00:36:24,146 - Humphrey will be fascinated. - He's on his way here. 487 00:36:24,309 --> 00:36:27,221 - He'll give his views. - What are you saying? 488 00:36:27,949 --> 00:36:32,943 Yes, well, as I say, I think that he'll think that it's beautifully... typed. 489 00:36:34,909 --> 00:36:38,697 - Ah, Minister. - Ah, Humphrey, come in. 490 00:36:38,869 --> 00:36:40,587 - Sit down. - Thank you, Minister. 491 00:36:41,189 --> 00:36:44,784 Now, local authorities. What are we going to do? 492 00:36:45,589 --> 00:36:50,185 Minister, this new remit gives you more influence, more Cabinet seniority. 493 00:36:50,349 --> 00:36:55,139 But do not let it give you any more work or worry. That would be foolishness. 494 00:36:55,309 --> 00:36:59,268 We've got to stop this appalling waste and extravagance. 495 00:36:59,949 --> 00:37:01,746 Why? 496 00:37:01,909 --> 00:37:04,298 - Why? - Yes, why? 497 00:37:04,469 --> 00:37:08,860 Well, it's my job. We're the government. We were elected to govern. 498 00:37:09,029 --> 00:37:11,020 Oh, really, Minister. 499 00:37:12,469 --> 00:37:18,624 Surely you won't tamper with the democratic rights of freely-elected local representatives? 500 00:37:19,629 --> 00:37:22,621 Well... no, of course not. 501 00:37:22,789 --> 00:37:26,782 But local government isn't democratic. Local democracy's a farce! 502 00:37:26,949 --> 00:37:32,148 Most people don't know who their councillor is. They never vote in a local election. 503 00:37:32,309 --> 00:37:36,302 Those who do regard it as a popularity poll for the government here. 504 00:37:36,469 --> 00:37:39,188 Local councillors are accountable to nobody. 505 00:37:39,349 --> 00:37:43,740 They're public-spirited citizens selflessly sacrificing their spare time. 506 00:37:43,909 --> 00:37:46,742 - Ever met any? - When there was no alternative. 507 00:37:47,989 --> 00:37:53,382 They're either busybodies on an ego trip or in it for what they can get out of it. 508 00:37:53,549 --> 00:37:56,985 Perhaps they ought to be in the House of Commons. 509 00:37:57,149 --> 00:38:00,903 Er, I mean, to see how a proper legislative assembly behaves. 510 00:38:02,109 --> 00:38:07,183 - I'm going to get a grip on them. I have a plan. - You have a plan? 511 00:38:08,629 --> 00:38:09,948 Yes. 512 00:38:10,109 --> 00:38:15,103 I'm going to insist that any local official who puts up a plan costing more than... 513 00:38:15,269 --> 00:38:19,865 ...say... £10,000 must accompany it with failure standards. 514 00:38:20,549 --> 00:38:24,622 - With what?! - With a statement saying he will have failed 515 00:38:24,789 --> 00:38:28,782 if his project does not achieve certain... pre-set results... 516 00:38:29,789 --> 00:38:34,943 ...or exceeds... fixed time or staff or budget limits. 517 00:38:35,109 --> 00:38:39,307 Where did you get the idea for this dangerous nonsense? 518 00:38:39,469 --> 00:38:41,585 From someone... in the department. 519 00:38:41,749 --> 00:38:47,585 I have warned you before about the danger of speaking to people in the department! 520 00:38:47,749 --> 00:38:53,028 I implore you to stay out of the minefield of local government. It is a political graveyard. 521 00:38:53,189 --> 00:38:58,183 Excuse me, Sir Humphrey, you cannot have a graveyard in a minefield 522 00:38:58,349 --> 00:39:01,147 because all the corpses would... powww! 523 00:39:04,349 --> 00:39:09,139 - You got me this job, you said. - But I didn't expect you to do anything. 524 00:39:09,309 --> 00:39:12,506 I mean, you've never done anything before! 525 00:39:12,669 --> 00:39:16,139 - Humphrey, I am deaf to your complaints. - Please, I beg you... 526 00:39:16,309 --> 00:39:20,746 No, no, no, no, Humphrey. I want specific proposals straight away. 527 00:39:20,909 --> 00:39:26,859 And immediate plans for their implementation by local government. What's the fuss about? 528 00:39:27,029 --> 00:39:31,500 I'm only proposing failure standards for local government, not Whitehall. 529 00:39:31,669 --> 00:39:36,663 - Though come to think of it... - If you insist on interfering in local government, 530 00:39:36,829 --> 00:39:40,538 may I make a suggestion that could prove a vote winner? 531 00:39:40,709 --> 00:39:43,701 Humphrey, I want to hear no more about... 532 00:39:46,709 --> 00:39:48,301 Vote winner? 533 00:39:48,469 --> 00:39:51,461 An area of local government that needs urgent attention. 534 00:39:51,629 --> 00:39:53,620 - What? - Civil defence. 535 00:39:55,949 --> 00:39:59,544 You mean fallout shelters? Surely they're just a joke. 536 00:39:59,709 --> 00:40:02,906 Precisely, Minister. At the moment, they are a joke. 537 00:40:03,069 --> 00:40:07,460 Local authorities are dragging their feet, but the highest duty of any government 538 00:40:07,629 --> 00:40:09,824 is to protect its citizens. 539 00:40:09,989 --> 00:40:13,459 Some think building shelters makes nuclear war more likely. 540 00:40:13,629 --> 00:40:16,621 If you have the weapons, you need the shelters. 541 00:40:16,789 --> 00:40:22,261 - Sometimes wonder why we need the weapons. - Minister, you're not a unilateralist? 542 00:40:22,429 --> 00:40:28,379 - Well... I sometimes wonder. - Then you must resign from the government! 543 00:40:28,549 --> 00:40:33,862 Ah, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not THAT unilateralist. 544 00:40:34,029 --> 00:40:38,864 - America will protect us from the Russians. - Who's talking about the Russians? 545 00:40:39,029 --> 00:40:43,068 - Well, the independent deterrent. - It's to protect us against the French! 546 00:40:45,789 --> 00:40:47,586 The French? 547 00:40:48,589 --> 00:40:51,501 - But that's astounding! - Why? 548 00:40:51,669 --> 00:40:55,059 - Well, they're our allies, our partners. - They are NOW. 549 00:40:55,229 --> 00:40:59,063 But they've been our enemies for most of the past 900 years. 550 00:40:59,229 --> 00:41:02,619 If they've got the bomb, we must have the bomb! 551 00:41:02,789 --> 00:41:07,704 If it's for the French, of course, that's different. Makes a lot of sense. 552 00:41:07,869 --> 00:41:11,703 - Yes. Can't trust the Frogs. - You can say that again! 553 00:41:11,869 --> 00:41:14,861 There is increasing public concern about the bomb. 554 00:41:15,029 --> 00:41:19,227 If I were to be seen to be doing something about it... I see what you mean. 555 00:41:21,829 --> 00:41:24,741 Ludovic Kennedy is preparing a BBC documentary on civil defence 556 00:41:24,909 --> 00:41:27,707 likely to be critical of the current situation. 557 00:41:27,869 --> 00:41:30,622 If you were seen to be taking decisive measures... 558 00:41:30,789 --> 00:41:32,586 Right, yes. 559 00:41:33,429 --> 00:41:36,660 I always handle Ludo so frightfully well. 560 00:41:38,149 --> 00:41:41,824 - Right, well, where do we start? - Just a suggestion. 561 00:41:41,989 --> 00:41:47,541 The London Borough of Thames Marsh spends less on civil defence than any other authority. 562 00:41:47,709 --> 00:41:50,064 Hm. A ministerial visit, do you think? 563 00:41:50,229 --> 00:41:55,019 That's Ben Stanley's borough - the one with the wispy moustache, who the press all hate. 564 00:41:55,189 --> 00:42:01,344 Good point. Get onto it straight away. Get Bill to make sure the press knows about this visit. 565 00:42:01,909 --> 00:42:08,303 Tell them I lie awake at night worrying about the defenceless citizens of Thames Marsh. 566 00:42:10,189 --> 00:42:12,180 Do you, Minister? 567 00:42:13,469 --> 00:42:15,937 Well, I will now. 568 00:42:22,749 --> 00:42:27,345 What makes you think you can come swanning down here from Whitehall 569 00:42:27,509 --> 00:42:29,898 and tell us how to run our borough? 570 00:42:30,069 --> 00:42:32,060 I'm not swanning down from Whitehall. 571 00:42:32,229 --> 00:42:35,699 I'm asking you why you've done less than any other borough 572 00:42:35,869 --> 00:42:38,064 to protect the people who elected you? 573 00:42:38,229 --> 00:42:42,461 - Simple. We can't find the money. - Why don't you try looking for it? 574 00:42:43,269 --> 00:42:47,342 Oh, that's great! Stop school meals, buy no textbooks? 575 00:42:47,509 --> 00:42:51,548 - Turn OAPs out into the cold? - I can tell you where to find it. 576 00:42:51,709 --> 00:42:53,904 - You can? - Yes. 577 00:42:54,069 --> 00:42:56,105 Tell him, Dr Cartwright. 578 00:42:58,469 --> 00:43:04,738 Scrap the plans for the new exhibition centre with the artificial ski slope and jacuzzi pool. 579 00:43:04,909 --> 00:43:06,900 Close the Feminist Drama Centre, 580 00:43:07,069 --> 00:43:11,824 the council's weekly newspaper and magazine and the Welfare Rights Research Department. 581 00:43:11,989 --> 00:43:15,538 You can halve the members' entertainments allowance, 582 00:43:15,709 --> 00:43:20,305 sell the Mayor's second Daimler, postpone the building of the new town hall, 583 00:43:20,469 --> 00:43:24,860 and cancel the 20 councillors' tourism fact-finding mission to Jamaica. 584 00:43:27,229 --> 00:43:29,618 And close the Gay Bereavement Centre. 585 00:43:33,989 --> 00:43:39,541 That'll save £21 millions on capital account and £750,000 a year on revenue account. 586 00:43:39,709 --> 00:43:41,506 Revenue account. 587 00:43:43,109 --> 00:43:45,304 - That's just stupid! - Why? 588 00:43:45,469 --> 00:43:49,621 Well, it's depriving the disadvantaged of indispensable services! 589 00:43:49,789 --> 00:43:55,022 - Jacuzzi pools? - I don't care if we can afford a shelter. 590 00:43:55,189 --> 00:43:59,501 This is a unilateralist borough. We do not believe in nuclear war. 591 00:43:59,669 --> 00:44:04,140 I don't believe in it either, but the provision of shelters is government policy. 592 00:44:04,309 --> 00:44:09,429 It is not Thames Marsh policy. Thames Marsh has no quarrel with the USSR. 593 00:44:09,589 --> 00:44:13,741 It's not just the USSR we're frightened of. It could be the Fre... 594 00:44:16,669 --> 00:44:20,457 - The who? - The... frigging Chinese! 595 00:44:24,789 --> 00:44:28,384 If the Russians do invade us, I suppose they'll say, 596 00:44:28,549 --> 00:44:34,021 "Hold on, we're not at war with Thames Marsh. Right, comrades, let's annex Chelsea instead." 597 00:44:35,189 --> 00:44:38,898 Excuse me, Minister. I think you may be interested in... 598 00:44:41,949 --> 00:44:47,421 Mr Stanley, it appears that you would not be called upon to make the supreme sacrifice. 599 00:44:47,589 --> 00:44:51,946 - What do you mean? - Is there a shelter under the town hall? 600 00:44:53,549 --> 00:44:55,267 Well, is there? 601 00:44:55,429 --> 00:44:58,148 - We didn't build it! - You maintain it. 602 00:44:59,509 --> 00:45:03,582 - It's only a small one. - And there is a place in it for you? 603 00:45:03,749 --> 00:45:09,585 I was persuaded, with deep reluctance, that my preservation was a necessity 604 00:45:09,749 --> 00:45:13,219 in the interests of the ratepayers of Thames Marsh. 605 00:45:13,389 --> 00:45:19,180 And what provision have you made for other essential persons? Doctors, nurses, firemen. 606 00:45:19,349 --> 00:45:23,137 People who might be almost as important as councillors. 607 00:45:23,309 --> 00:45:25,698 One of them's a chemist! 608 00:45:25,869 --> 00:45:29,828 Great. Nothing like aspirin for the nuclear holocaust. 609 00:45:31,789 --> 00:45:36,385 Your chap had quite a publicity triumph down at Thames Marsh, didn't he? 610 00:45:36,549 --> 00:45:40,861 - Oh, yes, tremendous. - You don't sound appropriately happy for him. 611 00:45:41,029 --> 00:45:45,022 - Trouble is he thinks he's achieved something. - Splendid. 612 00:45:45,189 --> 00:45:49,660 Life is so much easier when ministers think they've achieved something. 613 00:45:49,829 --> 00:45:52,423 Stops them fretting. No tantrums. 614 00:45:53,349 --> 00:45:56,068 Now he wants to introduce his next idea. 615 00:45:56,229 --> 00:46:01,019 A minister with two ideas. I can't remember when we last had one of those. 616 00:46:02,629 --> 00:46:04,620 Oh, it's not his own. 617 00:46:05,629 --> 00:46:10,578 He wants to introduce failure standards on all council contracts over £10,000 618 00:46:10,749 --> 00:46:13,138 and make a named official responsible. 619 00:46:13,309 --> 00:46:14,901 - Humphrey! - I know. 620 00:46:15,069 --> 00:46:18,698 Cartwright's idiot scheme! I thought Gordon had squashed it. 621 00:46:18,869 --> 00:46:25,183 He's come over to us now. Slipped the scheme to the minister privately, under plain cover! 622 00:46:25,989 --> 00:46:30,779 It'll be us next. Once you specify in advance what a project's supposed to achieve 623 00:46:30,949 --> 00:46:35,943 and whose responsibility it is to see that it does, the entire system collapses. 624 00:46:36,109 --> 00:46:39,499 You're into the squalid world of professional management. 625 00:46:39,669 --> 00:46:42,058 I know. I've tried to explain to him. 626 00:46:42,229 --> 00:46:48,702 I have pointed out that his new responsibilities were for enjoying, not exercising. I don't know. 627 00:46:48,869 --> 00:46:54,466 We move our officials round every 2 or 3 years to stop this personal responsibility nonsense. 628 00:46:54,629 --> 00:46:58,019 If this happened, we'd be posting everybody once a fortnight. 629 00:46:58,189 --> 00:47:02,580 He must be stopped. What's his next little publicity trip? 630 00:47:02,749 --> 00:47:07,186 Well, tomorrow he's living his little triumph over again. 631 00:47:07,349 --> 00:47:12,821 He's recording a TV interview with Ludovic Kennedy. A documentary on civil defence. 632 00:47:13,989 --> 00:47:19,382 Supposing he had a dossier on the curious ways in which local councillors 633 00:47:19,549 --> 00:47:22,143 spend their civil defence budgets. 634 00:47:22,309 --> 00:47:25,540 - How would that help? - I've got an idea. 635 00:47:25,709 --> 00:47:28,746 Perhaps you ought to become a minister! 636 00:47:30,989 --> 00:47:33,583 Um... just a joke, Arnold. 637 00:47:35,389 --> 00:47:38,062 Stand by, studio. We're about to record. 638 00:47:38,229 --> 00:47:43,223 A change for a minister to be given a chance to talk about something that's a success. 639 00:47:43,389 --> 00:47:47,428 Most unusual for the BBC. Is this a change of policy? 640 00:47:47,589 --> 00:47:49,466 ...2... 1. 641 00:47:49,629 --> 00:47:53,827 You've been claiming recently that in your dealings with local authority, 642 00:47:53,989 --> 00:47:57,140 you've been making progress as regards civil defence. 643 00:47:57,309 --> 00:48:01,427 Surely this has been more in the field of publicity than any achievement? 644 00:48:01,589 --> 00:48:03,784 No, no, no, no, Ludo. 645 00:48:03,949 --> 00:48:07,498 Authorities are being made to face up to these issues 646 00:48:07,669 --> 00:48:10,422 because of the interest we have generated. 647 00:48:10,589 --> 00:48:14,298 You're agreeing. Your success has been a publicity success. 648 00:48:14,469 --> 00:48:17,222 Well, yes, but things are changing. 649 00:48:17,389 --> 00:48:21,667 - Well, what about Thames Marsh? - Ah, Thames Marsh. Good example. 650 00:48:21,829 --> 00:48:24,787 As I said in the press, they have one shelter. 651 00:48:24,949 --> 00:48:28,305 A place in it is reserved for Ben Stanley, council leader, 652 00:48:28,469 --> 00:48:31,142 who refuses to build shelters for others. 653 00:48:31,309 --> 00:48:33,300 Don't you think that's hypocritical? 654 00:48:33,469 --> 00:48:39,658 Surely it's reasonable to expect that one of our elected representatives should survive. 655 00:48:39,829 --> 00:48:43,538 - Who is to govern otherwise? - In the event of a nuclear holocaust - 656 00:48:43,709 --> 00:48:47,702 and, of course, we all pray that such a thing will never happen - 657 00:48:47,869 --> 00:48:52,067 there are perhaps more important people than mere politicians. 658 00:48:52,229 --> 00:48:57,781 Doctors, nurses, ambulance men, and so on. All people who run essential services. 659 00:48:57,949 --> 00:49:02,943 Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not a fact that the PM and Home Secretary 660 00:49:03,109 --> 00:49:07,500 have places reserved for them in government fallout shelters? 661 00:49:07,669 --> 00:49:09,705 That is completely different. 662 00:49:11,429 --> 00:49:13,226 How? 663 00:49:13,389 --> 00:49:17,587 Well, there has to be someone to... run the... you know. 664 00:49:17,749 --> 00:49:23,142 Minister, you're saying political leaders should give up their places for doctors and nurses. 665 00:49:23,309 --> 00:49:27,143 Have you put this idea to the PM and the Home Secretary? 666 00:49:27,309 --> 00:49:33,020 I think we ought to be careful not to trivialise what is a very serious issue, Ludovic. 667 00:49:34,789 --> 00:49:39,146 I'll give you another example. I know of a borough which sent councillors, 668 00:49:39,309 --> 00:49:43,097 at the ratepayers' expensive, to California to look at shelters. 669 00:49:43,269 --> 00:49:45,464 But they couldn't do anything about it 670 00:49:45,629 --> 00:49:51,147 because they'd spent the entire civil defence budget for three whole years on the trip! 671 00:49:52,069 --> 00:49:54,264 - How shocking. - Shocking. 672 00:49:56,509 --> 00:50:00,218 Thank you, Minister. By the way, how did the recording go? 673 00:50:00,389 --> 00:50:04,382 Well, I got into a bit of bother over Ben Stanley's bunker. 674 00:50:04,549 --> 00:50:08,258 I said politicians weren't as important as doctors and so on. 675 00:50:08,429 --> 00:50:10,738 Did you? 676 00:50:10,909 --> 00:50:15,300 Then he said "What about the PM's place in the government shelter?" 677 00:50:15,469 --> 00:50:18,666 - And what did you say? - I got out of it. 678 00:50:18,829 --> 00:50:20,820 Quite cleverly, actually. 679 00:50:20,989 --> 00:50:24,982 I'm not too sure how happy the PM will be about it. 680 00:50:25,149 --> 00:50:28,744 Then I recovered with a marvellous story about some councillors 681 00:50:28,909 --> 00:50:31,503 who went to California to look at shelters 682 00:50:31,669 --> 00:50:36,379 and spent three entire years of the civil defence budget on the jaunt! 683 00:50:39,349 --> 00:50:43,342 - May I ask where that came from? - Yes. Where did that come from? 684 00:50:43,509 --> 00:50:48,139 From the Civil Defence Directorate. They knew you were doing the interview. 685 00:50:49,669 --> 00:50:53,662 Oh, well. Anyway, Minister, I'm sure you know what you're doing. 686 00:50:54,509 --> 00:50:58,980 Humphrey... you only say that when I've made an appalling cock-up. 687 00:51:02,229 --> 00:51:06,620 You do know the borough in question contains the PM's constituency... 688 00:51:08,389 --> 00:51:13,383 ...and that the PM's election agent was the councillor who led the delegation? 689 00:51:18,669 --> 00:51:23,459 - That was just a joke, wasn't it? - Number 10 have been trying to keep it quiet. 690 00:51:23,629 --> 00:51:26,826 - Oh, well, truth will out. - No, no, no! 691 00:51:26,989 --> 00:51:32,109 No, no, no, it mustn't out. It might look like a personal attack. 692 00:51:32,269 --> 00:51:37,138 You know what the PM's like about loyalty. This interview must not go out. 693 00:51:37,309 --> 00:51:41,302 Well, unfortunately, I haven't the time, I must be going. 694 00:51:41,469 --> 00:51:46,179 Humphrey, I... I... I... I'm ordering you, Humphrey. 695 00:51:46,349 --> 00:51:50,342 - Alas, your orders are calling me away. - What do you mean? 696 00:51:50,509 --> 00:51:55,299 Your scheme for imposing failure standards on local councils is very complex. 697 00:51:55,469 --> 00:52:00,065 You asked for proposals straight away. It's taking every moment of my time. 698 00:52:00,229 --> 00:52:02,424 Much as I would like to help. 699 00:52:04,389 --> 00:52:09,986 However... if implementing failure standards were not quite so urgent... 700 00:52:10,149 --> 00:52:12,822 You mean, you can stop this broadcast? 701 00:52:12,989 --> 00:52:16,584 Now, Minister, we cannot censor the BBC, 702 00:52:16,749 --> 00:52:20,583 but I happen to be lunching with the BBC's Director of Policy. 703 00:52:20,749 --> 00:52:24,628 - Perhaps you'd care to join us. - But if we can't censor them... 704 00:52:24,789 --> 00:52:28,782 We could persuade them to withdraw programmes voluntarily 705 00:52:28,949 --> 00:52:32,658 once they realise that transmission is not in the public interest. 706 00:52:33,549 --> 00:52:39,545 Well, it's not in MY interest... and I represent the public, so it's not in the public interest. 707 00:52:42,989 --> 00:52:44,980 That's a novel argument. 708 00:52:47,109 --> 00:52:50,624 We haven't tried that on them before. Have we? 709 00:52:53,189 --> 00:52:55,419 The BBC cannot give in to government pressure. 710 00:52:55,589 --> 00:52:58,387 - Let's leave that on one side... - No, no! 711 00:52:58,549 --> 00:53:02,861 Let's leave that on one side, shall we? Please, Minister. 712 00:53:03,029 --> 00:53:05,259 Frank, could I raise something else? 713 00:53:06,149 --> 00:53:11,746 There is considerable disquiet about the BBC's attitude and hostility towards the government. 714 00:53:12,389 --> 00:53:15,586 - But that's absurd. - Is it? 715 00:53:15,749 --> 00:53:21,585 They've been documenting instances of bias in BBC current affairs. 716 00:53:21,749 --> 00:53:24,582 Favourable news stories not reported. 717 00:53:25,589 --> 00:53:30,299 Oh, yes. Excessive publicity for other countries' cases against Britain. 718 00:53:30,469 --> 00:53:34,223 Especially our Common Market enemies... 719 00:53:34,389 --> 00:53:37,267 ...um... partners. 720 00:53:37,429 --> 00:53:39,420 Oh, yes. 721 00:53:39,589 --> 00:53:42,422 Jokes against the Prime Minister. 722 00:53:42,589 --> 00:53:46,298 Unnecessary publicity for anti-government demonstrations. 723 00:53:46,469 --> 00:53:50,781 And ministers' programme suggestions not accepted. 724 00:53:52,469 --> 00:53:58,021 - I had no room in my case for the others. - I'm sure we have answers to all these. 725 00:53:58,189 --> 00:54:01,181 The BBC's always got answers. Silly ones. 726 00:54:01,349 --> 00:54:05,979 Yes, of course. I thought it fair to warn you that questions are being asked. 727 00:54:06,749 --> 00:54:10,537 - What sort of questions? - Well, for example, 728 00:54:10,709 --> 00:54:15,703 were Parliament to be televised, whether it shouldn't be entrusted to ITV. 729 00:54:17,269 --> 00:54:21,660 - You can't be serious? - And whether the BBC administration 730 00:54:21,829 --> 00:54:26,220 is making the cuts in jobs and premises that we've endured in government. 731 00:54:26,389 --> 00:54:29,984 Should a select committee scrutinise BBC expenditure? 732 00:54:30,149 --> 00:54:33,698 - That would be an intolerable intrusion. - Well, of course. 733 00:54:33,869 --> 00:54:39,466 Then there's this extraordinary matter of boxes at Ascot, Wimbledon, Lords, Covent Garden. 734 00:54:40,749 --> 00:54:46,142 Ah, yes, those are a technical requirement for the production and engineering staff. 735 00:54:46,989 --> 00:54:52,461 Reports from the Inland Revenue suggest that the production and engineering staff 736 00:54:52,629 --> 00:54:55,018 are all holding champagne glasses. 737 00:54:56,029 --> 00:54:59,499 And are all accompanied by their wives or... 738 00:54:59,669 --> 00:55:03,708 ...ladies of... equal distinction. 739 00:55:06,029 --> 00:55:08,224 And all bear a remarkable similarity 740 00:55:08,389 --> 00:55:13,782 to governors, directors and executives of the Corporation, and their friends. 741 00:55:13,949 --> 00:55:16,668 Oh, I say, you've come out very well. 742 00:55:19,389 --> 00:55:25,737 It is possible we can contain all this criticism, provided the files don't get any larger. 743 00:55:25,909 --> 00:55:31,108 I've urged my minister that there's no need to take up the civil defence issue formally. 744 00:55:31,269 --> 00:55:33,988 But... But you must see my position. 745 00:55:37,269 --> 00:55:41,660 - The BBC can't give in to government pressure. - We wouldn't want them to. 746 00:55:41,829 --> 00:55:44,104 - Wouldn't we? - No, of course not. 747 00:55:44,269 --> 00:55:48,421 The minister's interview with Ludovic Kennedy did contain factual errors. 748 00:55:48,589 --> 00:55:53,424 Factual errors? That's different. The BBC couldn't give in to government pressure. 749 00:55:53,589 --> 00:55:58,060 - Absolutely not. - But we set great store by factual accuracy. 750 00:55:58,229 --> 00:56:02,222 Some of the information might well be out of date by the time... 751 00:56:02,389 --> 00:56:05,108 Out of date? Ah, now, that's serious. 752 00:56:05,269 --> 00:56:08,227 Obviously, the BBC couldn't give in to government pressure. 753 00:56:08,389 --> 00:56:12,667 - Oh, indeed not. - But we can't transmit out-of-date material. 754 00:56:12,829 --> 00:56:17,061 And since the recording, I realised that I made one or two slips 755 00:56:17,229 --> 00:56:19,948 that might have security implications. 756 00:56:20,109 --> 00:56:23,465 - Such as? - He can't tell you what they are. 757 00:56:26,269 --> 00:56:28,942 - Why not? - Security. 758 00:56:29,109 --> 00:56:31,100 Can't be too careful about security. 759 00:56:31,269 --> 00:56:35,057 If the defence of the realm is at stake, we must be responsible. 760 00:56:35,229 --> 00:56:39,017 Obviously, the BBC couldn't give in to government pressure, 761 00:56:39,189 --> 00:56:41,578 but security - you can't be too careful. 762 00:56:41,749 --> 00:56:44,138 - Can't be too careful. - Can't be too careful. 763 00:56:44,309 --> 00:56:49,508 If there are inaccuracies and security worries, the BBC wouldn't want to put the interview out. 764 00:56:49,669 --> 00:56:54,106 - Precisely. - That puts a different complexion on it. 765 00:56:54,269 --> 00:57:00,026 Transmission would not be in the public's interest, but I must make one thing absolutely clear. 766 00:57:00,189 --> 00:57:06,059 There can be absolutely no question of the BBC ever giving in to government pressure. 767 00:57:07,549 --> 00:57:09,540 Oh, good news, Minister. 768 00:57:10,549 --> 00:57:14,747 The BBC have decided not to send out your interview with Ludovic Kennedy. 769 00:57:14,909 --> 00:57:17,946 - Really? - They felt that was the responsible course. 770 00:57:18,109 --> 00:57:20,100 - Well done. - Oh, it was nothing. 771 00:57:20,269 --> 00:57:23,545 Yet, you know, I can't help feeling 772 00:57:23,709 --> 00:57:28,737 that I was trapped into saying those things that might've embarrassed the PM. 773 00:57:28,909 --> 00:57:30,900 - Surely not? - Yes. 774 00:57:31,829 --> 00:57:38,018 - I think I was dropped right in it. - How could you think such a ridiculous thought? 775 00:57:38,189 --> 00:57:42,501 Why is it ridiculous to imagine that he would've tried to trap me? 776 00:57:42,669 --> 00:57:44,466 Who? 777 00:57:44,629 --> 00:57:46,620 Ludovic Kennedy. 778 00:57:47,749 --> 00:57:51,742 Oh, Ludovic Kennedy tried to trap you. Yes, well, I'm sure he did. 779 00:57:51,909 --> 00:57:56,460 - Deceitful crowd, the media. Underhand. - No, thoroughly deceitful. 780 00:57:56,629 --> 00:58:00,941 By the way, I think it might be wise to lay off the local councils. 781 00:58:01,109 --> 00:58:02,428 Oh, yes? 782 00:58:02,589 --> 00:58:07,185 After all, councillors are responsible, sensible people on the whole. 783 00:58:07,349 --> 00:58:10,341 - And they are democratically elected. - Democratically elected. 784 00:58:10,509 --> 00:58:15,503 Central government must be frightfully careful before it tells them how to do their jobs. 785 00:58:15,669 --> 00:58:19,742 Frightfully careful. And the failure standards? 786 00:58:19,909 --> 00:58:24,107 Well, I think the same applies... don't you? 787 00:58:24,269 --> 00:58:25,861 Yes, Minister. 788 00:59:50,083 --> 00:59:52,961 Item 7. What is item 7? 789 00:59:53,123 --> 00:59:55,114 Well, if I may just recapitulate... 790 00:59:55,283 --> 00:59:57,592 - Ahem. - Sorry, Minister. 791 00:59:57,763 --> 01:00:01,961 You can't actually recapitulate an item if you haven't started it yet. 792 01:00:03,323 --> 01:00:07,521 Thank you. Where would we be without you? May I continue? 793 01:00:07,683 --> 01:00:12,473 Recapitulating on our last meeting and the minutes, which you doubtless received... 794 01:00:12,643 --> 01:00:15,077 Doubtless, yes, yes. 795 01:00:15,243 --> 01:00:17,962 Er... what minutes, Humphrey? 796 01:00:18,123 --> 01:00:22,116 Disciplinary action against the South Derbyshire local authority. 797 01:00:22,283 --> 01:00:27,277 Ah, yes... Will you remind me, Bernard? 798 01:00:27,443 --> 01:00:32,233 They failed to complete their statutory returns and supply us with statistical information. 799 01:00:32,403 --> 01:00:35,395 - What'll we do? - The action we can take? 800 01:00:35,563 --> 01:00:39,556 A rebuke from the minister, press statement about their incompetence, 801 01:00:39,723 --> 01:00:43,432 the withholding of grants or ultimately, as you are fully aware... 802 01:00:43,603 --> 01:00:45,594 Yes, of course. 803 01:00:45,763 --> 01:00:47,321 Good. 804 01:00:48,923 --> 01:00:50,914 I'm fully aware of what? 805 01:00:52,043 --> 01:00:55,479 - What? - What am I fully aware of? 806 01:00:55,643 --> 01:01:00,763 - Um... I can't think of anything. I mean... - You said, ultimately, as I am fully... 807 01:01:00,923 --> 01:01:04,313 Ultimately, taking the local authority to court. Sorry. 808 01:01:04,483 --> 01:01:06,280 Is it that serious? 809 01:01:06,443 --> 01:01:09,003 - Serious? It's catastrophic! - Why? 810 01:01:09,163 --> 01:01:14,840 If local authorities don't send us statistics, government figures will be a nonsense. 811 01:01:15,003 --> 01:01:18,837 - They'll be incomplete. - Government figures are a nonsense, anyway. 812 01:01:19,003 --> 01:01:23,793 I think Sir Humphrey wants to ensure they're a complete nonsense. 813 01:01:24,923 --> 01:01:26,914 I mean... er... 814 01:01:27,083 --> 01:01:30,280 Why should we make an example of South Derbyshire? 815 01:01:30,443 --> 01:01:34,197 Do you object because the council's controlled by your party? 816 01:01:34,363 --> 01:01:36,354 Oh, no, no, no. 817 01:01:36,523 --> 01:01:40,562 No, no, no. But couldn't we just... pick on an opposition council? 818 01:01:40,723 --> 01:01:44,318 - Oh, Minister! - Is South Derbyshire all that bad? 819 01:01:44,483 --> 01:01:49,477 Terrible! They won't return their blue forms! 820 01:01:49,643 --> 01:01:53,875 They haven't completed last year's employment trends questionnaire! 821 01:01:54,043 --> 01:01:58,036 They replied to our ethnic personnel breakdown request in longhand 822 01:01:58,203 --> 01:02:00,558 on the back of a departmental circular! 823 01:02:01,723 --> 01:02:06,513 We haven't had their social worker revised analysis for the last two quarters 824 01:02:06,683 --> 01:02:09,481 or their data-processing appropriation tables! 825 01:02:09,643 --> 01:02:11,998 They're unbelievable! Really evil! 826 01:02:12,163 --> 01:02:15,872 What, because they won't return their forms in triplicate? 827 01:02:16,043 --> 01:02:19,115 I don't see how life can go on in Derbyshire! 828 01:02:19,283 --> 01:02:24,073 Exactly, Minister. They really are in a class of their own for incompetence. 829 01:02:24,243 --> 01:02:27,440 - Have they no redeeming features? - It is fascinating... 830 01:02:27,603 --> 01:02:31,198 If that's all right, we can take coercive action. 831 01:02:31,363 --> 01:02:34,560 - The minister might like to know... - You approve? 832 01:02:35,763 --> 01:02:41,156 - Yes, it's a difficult one. They're friends. - They are no friends of good administration. 833 01:02:41,323 --> 01:02:45,111 Well, give me 24 hours. I'll have to square the party organisation. 834 01:02:45,283 --> 01:02:50,277 Get the chairman invited to one of those drinky-do's at Number 10. 835 01:02:50,443 --> 01:02:55,471 - Soften the blow. Right, anything else? - No, I think that seems to be all. 836 01:03:01,163 --> 01:03:04,997 Richard, I need your advice, if you can spare a moment. 837 01:03:07,443 --> 01:03:09,434 Bernard, I'm not happy about... 838 01:03:09,603 --> 01:03:11,878 - (DOOR CLOSES) ...disciplining South Derbyshire. 839 01:03:12,043 --> 01:03:14,398 - Why not, Minister? - Instinct. 840 01:03:14,563 --> 01:03:19,876 Dr Cartwright seemed to be trying to tell me something. I think I'll drop in on him. 841 01:03:20,043 --> 01:03:21,999 - I wouldn't do that. - Why not? 842 01:03:22,163 --> 01:03:26,156 If ministers want to know anything, it will be brought to their notice. 843 01:03:26,323 --> 01:03:29,872 If they go out looking for information, they might... 844 01:03:30,043 --> 01:03:32,352 - Find it? - Yes. 845 01:03:33,643 --> 01:03:37,636 Sir Humphrey does not take kindly to ministers dropping in on people. 846 01:03:37,803 --> 01:03:41,557 - Going walkabout, he calls it. - The Queen does it. 847 01:03:42,563 --> 01:03:46,761 She doesn't drop in on Under-Secretaries, not in Sir Humphrey's department. 848 01:03:46,923 --> 01:03:50,120 - What's his room number? - I must advise you against this. 849 01:03:50,283 --> 01:03:52,877 - Advice noted. - Room 4017. 850 01:03:54,483 --> 01:03:57,202 Down one flight, second corridor on the left. 851 01:03:57,363 --> 01:04:01,151 If I'm not back in 48 hours, send out a search party! 852 01:04:04,563 --> 01:04:09,557 Hello, Graham, it's Bernard. Tell Sir Humphrey that the Minister's just gone walkabout. 853 01:04:09,723 --> 01:04:11,918 Yes, yes, AWOL. 854 01:04:13,523 --> 01:04:15,912 Well, of course I told him, yes. 855 01:04:16,083 --> 01:04:20,076 I know. I think you'd better let him know right away. 856 01:04:22,323 --> 01:04:28,319 One... two... three... four... five... 857 01:04:28,483 --> 01:04:33,477 ...six... seven... eight... nine... TEN. 858 01:04:33,643 --> 01:04:35,634 What's all this about? 859 01:04:37,123 --> 01:04:40,115 The minister's just left the office, that's all. 860 01:04:40,283 --> 01:04:43,673 That's all? Do you mean he's loose in the building? 861 01:04:44,683 --> 01:04:48,881 - Why didn't you warn me? - I did advise him, but he is the minister. 862 01:04:49,043 --> 01:04:52,513 There's no prohibition against ministers talking to their staff. 863 01:04:52,683 --> 01:04:56,153 - Who's he talking to? - Perhaps he was just restless. 864 01:04:56,323 --> 01:05:00,282 If the minister's restless, he can feed the ducks in St James's Park! 865 01:05:01,083 --> 01:05:04,996 - Yes, Sir Humphrey. - Tell me who the minister's talking to. 866 01:05:06,123 --> 01:05:09,513 Well, surely the minister can talk to anyone. 867 01:05:09,683 --> 01:05:15,519 Bernard... I'm in the middle of writing your annual report. 868 01:05:18,323 --> 01:05:23,113 Now, it is not a responsibility that either of us would wish me to discharge 869 01:05:23,283 --> 01:05:25,592 whilst I am in a bad temper. 870 01:05:26,483 --> 01:05:28,553 Who's the minister talking to? 871 01:05:29,603 --> 01:05:35,075 Perhaps you could help me. I can see that you should know if he calls on an outsider. 872 01:05:35,243 --> 01:05:41,637 I fail to see why you should be informed if he just wants to, to take a hypothetical example, 873 01:05:41,803 --> 01:05:45,239 to... check a point with... Dr Cartwright... 874 01:05:45,403 --> 01:05:48,122 Thank you, Bernard. Must fly. 875 01:05:48,283 --> 01:05:50,399 - Room 4017. - I know. 876 01:05:53,723 --> 01:05:56,283 Are those things about South Derbyshire true? 877 01:05:56,443 --> 01:05:59,003 - They may be. - What are you saying? 878 01:05:59,163 --> 01:06:03,793 I'm saying that South Derbyshire is the most efficient local authority in the UK. 879 01:06:03,963 --> 01:06:08,434 - I'm meant to tick them off for being the least. - Look at the figures. 880 01:06:08,603 --> 01:06:12,596 - I thought they didn't send us any. - No. 881 01:06:12,763 --> 01:06:16,961 But they keep their own records perfectly well. I'm going on those. 882 01:06:19,323 --> 01:06:23,111 They've got the lowest truancy record in the Midlands. 883 01:06:23,283 --> 01:06:29,074 The lowest admin cost per council house. The lowest ratio of council workers to rate income. 884 01:06:29,243 --> 01:06:32,633 The lowest number of environmental health officers. 885 01:06:32,803 --> 01:06:36,398 - What are environmental health officers? - Rat-catchers. 886 01:06:37,803 --> 01:06:43,002 Virtually all children can read and write, even though they've had a progressive education. 887 01:06:43,163 --> 01:06:46,872 They've got the smallest establishment of social workers in the UK. 888 01:06:47,043 --> 01:06:51,434 - Is that supposed to be a good thing? - Oh, yes. Sign of efficiency. 889 01:06:51,603 --> 01:06:54,401 Parkinson's Law of Social Work, you see. 890 01:06:54,563 --> 01:06:59,956 Social problems increase to occupy the number of social workers available to deal with them. 891 01:07:01,283 --> 01:07:04,992 - And all these figures are OK? - Yes, I assure you. 892 01:07:05,163 --> 01:07:07,154 Richard, I wonder if I... 893 01:07:08,203 --> 01:07:10,194 Good heavens, Minister. 894 01:07:10,363 --> 01:07:14,402 - Humphrey, what a coincidence. - Yes, indeed, what a surprise! 895 01:07:14,563 --> 01:07:16,758 - Yes. - Yes. 896 01:07:16,923 --> 01:07:18,993 I was just... passing. 897 01:07:20,403 --> 01:07:23,201 - Passing? - Yes, passing. 898 01:07:23,363 --> 01:07:28,562 - Oh, passing. And where were you going? - I was just going... past. 899 01:07:30,483 --> 01:07:33,919 Past the door. Cartwright's... Richard's door. 900 01:07:34,083 --> 01:07:37,393 And I thought..."Hello..." 901 01:07:38,283 --> 01:07:40,433 Did you think anything further? 902 01:07:41,483 --> 01:07:45,874 Yes, I thought, "Why should I pass the door? Why not open it?" 903 01:07:46,803 --> 01:07:50,512 - Good thinking, that's what doors are for. - Right. 904 01:07:50,683 --> 01:07:55,359 - There were some points I wanted to clear up. - Oh, good, good. What points? 905 01:07:55,523 --> 01:07:59,198 - Just a couple of odd points. - Couple of odd points. 906 01:08:00,963 --> 01:08:05,161 - How odd? - Oh... not all that odd. 907 01:08:05,323 --> 01:08:09,111 - We just had a meeting. - Could I have a word with you? 908 01:08:09,283 --> 01:08:12,480 - Yes, of course, as soon as... - No, I mean now. 909 01:08:12,643 --> 01:08:16,079 - All right, carry on. - No, upstairs in your office. 910 01:08:16,243 --> 01:08:19,041 - I'm sure Richard doesn't mind. - No, upstairs. 911 01:08:19,203 --> 01:08:25,199 I'm sure that Dr Cartwright can spare you for a few moments. Thank you, Richard. Minister. 912 01:08:37,083 --> 01:08:38,880 (LIFT PINGS) 913 01:08:52,843 --> 01:08:54,834 You may go, Bernard. 914 01:08:55,883 --> 01:09:01,196 - Minister, what was all that in aid of? - I have learnt some interesting facts. 915 01:09:01,363 --> 01:09:04,753 - I hope it does not happen again. - I beg your pardon? 916 01:09:04,923 --> 01:09:09,678 - You cannot speak to people in the department. - Why not? 917 01:09:09,843 --> 01:09:12,994 How can I advise you if I don't know what's said? 918 01:09:13,163 --> 01:09:17,953 I must know what is going on. You cannot have private conversations! 919 01:09:18,123 --> 01:09:21,877 - You may be told things that are not true! - You can put me right. 920 01:09:22,043 --> 01:09:24,034 But they may be true! 921 01:09:25,483 --> 01:09:29,681 Not entirely false, but misleading, open to misinterpretation. 922 01:09:29,843 --> 01:09:34,041 - You're trying to keep things from me. - Absolutely not, Minister. 923 01:09:34,203 --> 01:09:40,961 Minutes must be taken, records must be kept. You won't be here for ever, nor will we. 924 01:09:41,123 --> 01:09:48,074 In years to come... If Cartwright were moved tomorrow, how could we check information? 925 01:09:48,243 --> 01:09:51,235 - Cartwright won't be moved tomorrow. - Oh, really? 926 01:09:53,163 --> 01:09:58,362 - Alex Andrews from the Mail to see you. - Ah, hang on. I'd like you to minute this. 927 01:09:58,523 --> 01:10:03,313 Everything must be minuted, you know. Sit down, won't you, Humphrey? 928 01:10:03,483 --> 01:10:06,953 - Now... South Derbyshire Council... - Just a minute. 929 01:10:07,123 --> 01:10:10,195 Yes, that's what I said. South Derbyshire. 930 01:10:10,363 --> 01:10:14,356 Dr Cartwright said it is the most efficient council in Britain. 931 01:10:14,523 --> 01:10:17,321 - Inefficient, I think he means. - Efficient, Humphrey. 932 01:10:17,483 --> 01:10:22,477 Economical, effective. Just not interested in sending bits of blue paper to Whitehall. 933 01:10:22,643 --> 01:10:25,032 - But they have to send them. - Why? 934 01:10:25,203 --> 01:10:30,596 - It is a statutory requirement. - And if they don't, Britain carries on. 935 01:10:30,763 --> 01:10:35,154 - South Derbyshire carries on. - But if they don't send us the information, 936 01:10:35,323 --> 01:10:39,680 the plans and the requests for permission, well, what are we here for? 937 01:10:40,283 --> 01:10:44,481 Good question. What ARE we here for? 938 01:10:44,643 --> 01:10:49,239 To collate information, inspects plans, and withhold or grant permission. 939 01:10:49,403 --> 01:10:53,521 - And if we didn't? - I'm sorry, Minister, I don't understand. 940 01:10:53,683 --> 01:10:57,232 If we weren't here and we didn't do it, what then? 941 01:10:57,403 --> 01:11:03,114 - I'm sorry, you've lost me. - You're concerned more with means than ends. 942 01:11:03,283 --> 01:11:09,722 There are no ends in administration, Minister, except loose ends. Administration is eternal! 943 01:11:09,883 --> 01:11:13,398 - For ever and ever. - (HUMPHREY AND BERNARD) Amen! 944 01:11:13,563 --> 01:11:16,555 Because there are no ends, they talk about government circles. 945 01:11:16,723 --> 01:11:20,113 Exactly, Bernard, which is what we're going round in! 946 01:11:20,283 --> 01:11:23,912 I won't discipline South Derbyshire. I'd look a complete idiot. 947 01:11:24,083 --> 01:11:26,881 I'm sorry, Minister, but it's your job. 948 01:11:28,883 --> 01:11:31,716 To discipline South Derbyshire. You have no alternative. 949 01:11:31,883 --> 01:11:38,118 - The Treasury and the Cabinet Office insist. - I cannot agree to this. Not today, anyhow. 950 01:11:38,283 --> 01:11:40,080 - Tomorrow, then. - No! 951 01:11:40,243 --> 01:11:42,552 I'm sorry, you don't seem to understand. 952 01:11:42,723 --> 01:11:46,159 It is not up to you or to me. It is the law. 953 01:11:46,883 --> 01:11:50,717 - Minister, I think you ought to talk to the Mail. - Very well. 954 01:11:51,883 --> 01:11:55,080 - Thank you, Humphrey. - Thank you, Minister. 955 01:11:57,323 --> 01:12:00,474 - Bernard. Bernard. - Yes, Minister? 956 01:12:03,403 --> 01:12:06,793 How did Sir Humphrey know I was with Dr Cartwright? 957 01:12:08,203 --> 01:12:10,239 God moves in a mysterious way. 958 01:12:12,523 --> 01:12:17,119 Let me make one thing perfectly clear. Humphrey is not God, OK? 959 01:12:19,403 --> 01:12:21,712 Will you tell him or shall I? 960 01:12:25,403 --> 01:12:28,998 Now, tell me how he knew where I was. 961 01:12:29,163 --> 01:12:32,951 Confidentially, everything you tell me is in complete confidence 962 01:12:33,123 --> 01:12:38,834 so equally, and I'm sure you appreciate this, and, by appreciate, I don't mean appreciate, 963 01:12:39,003 --> 01:12:43,201 I mean understand, that everything Sir Humphrey tells me is also in confidence, 964 01:12:43,363 --> 01:12:49,279 as indeed everything I tell you and everything I tell Sir Humphrey is in complete confidence. 965 01:12:52,483 --> 01:12:54,474 So? 966 01:12:55,323 --> 01:12:58,315 So, in confidence, I am confident you understand 967 01:12:58,483 --> 01:13:02,920 that for me to keep Sir Humphrey's confidence, conversations between him and me 968 01:13:03,083 --> 01:13:07,713 must be confidential, as confidential as conversations between you and me 969 01:13:07,883 --> 01:13:10,078 are completely confidential. 970 01:13:14,723 --> 01:13:17,191 - Mr Andrews, Minister. - Thank you, Bernard. 971 01:13:17,363 --> 01:13:20,196 - Ah, Alex. - Hello, Jim. 972 01:13:20,363 --> 01:13:22,558 - Sit down. - Thank you. 973 01:13:22,723 --> 01:13:25,715 - What can I do for you? - I need your help. 974 01:13:25,883 --> 01:13:27,919 I've come across a fascinating story. 975 01:13:28,643 --> 01:13:33,433 Do you realise that your government is about to hand over £40 million-worth 976 01:13:33,603 --> 01:13:39,473 of housing, building, harbour installations and an airstrip to a private developer for nothing? 977 01:13:39,643 --> 01:13:43,682 - £40 million?! You're having me on! - No, Scout's honour. 978 01:13:45,483 --> 01:13:48,475 - Why tell me? I didn't do it, did I? - No. 979 01:13:50,563 --> 01:13:52,554 It goes back a long way. 980 01:13:52,723 --> 01:13:57,194 30 years ago, the Ministry of Defence took out a lease on a Scottish island. 981 01:13:57,363 --> 01:14:01,356 They put up billets, married quarters, HQ block, the harbour, the airstrip. 982 01:14:01,523 --> 01:14:07,075 And now the lease has expired, it reverts to the original owner. He's opening up a holiday camp. 983 01:14:07,243 --> 01:14:11,555 Yachting marinas, chalets, staff quarters. It's all there. He'll make a fortune. 984 01:14:11,723 --> 01:14:15,921 - He can't do that. The law... - No, you're talking about English law. 985 01:14:16,083 --> 01:14:21,077 This contract was made under Scottish law. Some idiot didn't realise the difference. 986 01:14:21,243 --> 01:14:24,235 - We're in the clear. - Ah, yes. 987 01:14:24,403 --> 01:14:28,601 Even the Mail can't blame you for a cock-up in the early '50s. 988 01:14:28,763 --> 01:14:30,799 Makes a change. 989 01:14:30,963 --> 01:14:33,955 What do you want from me? You've got your story. 990 01:14:34,123 --> 01:14:39,402 30 years late. As quick with the news as ever! Still, not bad for Fleet Street! 991 01:14:39,563 --> 01:14:44,114 We're running it tomorrow, but my editor wants me to do a feature, 992 01:14:44,283 --> 01:14:47,275 find out how it happened, go through the files. 993 01:14:47,443 --> 01:14:50,003 - Why? - There could be lessons for today. 994 01:14:50,163 --> 01:14:53,280 We might find out who is responsible. 995 01:14:53,443 --> 01:14:57,516 Does it matter? It would've been handled by quite a junior official. 996 01:14:57,683 --> 01:15:01,278 30 years ago. Today he could be in an important position. 997 01:15:01,443 --> 01:15:05,231 He could be a Permanent Secretary running a great department, 998 01:15:05,403 --> 01:15:08,952 responsible for spending billions of pounds of public money. 999 01:15:09,123 --> 01:15:13,514 - Pretty unlikely. - Yes. But can I see the papers? 1000 01:15:13,683 --> 01:15:19,155 Of course, I can't just hand files over. Didn't you say it was a 30-year lease? 1001 01:15:19,323 --> 01:15:23,475 You can get them from the Public Records Office under the 30-year rule. 1002 01:15:23,643 --> 01:15:29,320 Yes, I thought you'd say that, but I want a guarantee that I will get ALL of them. 1003 01:15:29,483 --> 01:15:33,635 - Well, Defence papers... - Come on, this is not top security. 1004 01:15:33,803 --> 01:15:39,799 You made a manifesto commitment saying you'd tell voters the facts. This is a test case. 1005 01:15:40,803 --> 01:15:46,002 I want your guarantee that no papers will be removed from the file before it's opened. 1006 01:15:46,163 --> 01:15:49,155 I don't see why not. No skin off my nose. 1007 01:15:49,323 --> 01:15:53,919 Is that a promise? A REAL promise, not the sort you put in your manifesto! 1008 01:15:54,083 --> 01:15:58,679 You know, the problem with you, Alex, is you won't take yes for an answer! 1009 01:15:59,683 --> 01:16:04,359 Otherwise we do the feature about ministers ratting on manifestos. 1010 01:16:36,203 --> 01:16:38,194 Is that the lot, Humphrey? 1011 01:16:41,403 --> 01:16:45,157 Oh, I'm sorry. That seems to be all, Minister, thank you. 1012 01:16:45,323 --> 01:16:49,521 Incidentally, Humphrey, did you see that story in the Mail this morning? 1013 01:16:49,683 --> 01:16:53,471 - About the Scottish island scandal. - I'm not sure. 1014 01:16:53,643 --> 01:16:58,637 About some cock-up somebody made 30 years ago about the terms of the lease. 1015 01:16:58,803 --> 01:17:01,033 I believe I did glance at it. 1016 01:17:01,203 --> 01:17:05,116 £40 million down the tube! Somebody really boobed there! 1017 01:17:07,243 --> 01:17:10,440 - It didn't happen in your department? - Absolutely not. 1018 01:17:10,603 --> 01:17:14,994 - I wonder who it was. - That is something we shall never know. 1019 01:17:15,163 --> 01:17:20,283 It'll be on the files. Everything must be put in writing, as you're always telling me. 1020 01:17:21,563 --> 01:17:27,832 Well... somewhere, no doubt, but it would take ages to search. Not worth anyone's time. 1021 01:17:28,003 --> 01:17:31,598 You may be wrong. The Mail want to do a big feature. 1022 01:17:31,763 --> 01:17:36,598 As soon as the papers are released under the 30-year rule in a few weeks, 1023 01:17:36,763 --> 01:17:39,755 I promised them a free run of all the files. 1024 01:17:42,523 --> 01:17:45,401 - Minister! - It's all right, isn't it? 1025 01:17:45,563 --> 01:17:49,112 All right? It most certainly is NOT all right! 1026 01:17:49,283 --> 01:17:52,480 - Why on earth not? - It's impossible, it's unthinkable! 1027 01:17:52,643 --> 01:17:54,599 - Why? - It's top security! 1028 01:17:55,483 --> 01:17:58,680 - A few barracks? - Secret naval installations! 1029 01:17:58,843 --> 01:18:02,040 Anti-submarine systems! Low-level radar towers! 1030 01:18:02,203 --> 01:18:06,640 - You don't know that. - That's the sort of thing those bases have. 1031 01:18:06,803 --> 01:18:10,398 - But they'd have been dismantled. - The papers will have references! 1032 01:18:10,563 --> 01:18:13,555 - Ancient history. - We need to get clearances. 1033 01:18:13,723 --> 01:18:15,714 Who from? 1034 01:18:15,883 --> 01:18:19,671 Security implications! Ml5! Ml6! 1035 01:18:21,083 --> 01:18:23,677 Foreign powers! National interests! 1036 01:18:23,843 --> 01:18:29,156 Consult our allies! Top brass! CIA, NATO, SEATO, Moscow! 1037 01:18:30,883 --> 01:18:37,482 - Moscow? Are you all right, Humphrey? - Er, no, not Moscow. I didn't mean Moscow. 1038 01:18:37,643 --> 01:18:41,795 But this information could seriously damage people still alive. 1039 01:18:41,963 --> 01:18:45,956 The people who drew up this contract ought to be damaged! 1040 01:18:46,123 --> 01:18:49,957 Oh, absolutely! No question of protecting officials! Of course not! 1041 01:18:50,123 --> 01:18:52,353 But... responsible ministers... 1042 01:18:52,523 --> 01:18:57,313 It's 30 years ago. In any case, weren't the other lot in office then? 1043 01:18:57,483 --> 01:19:00,520 - Well, yes... - Why are you so concerned? 1044 01:19:02,803 --> 01:19:08,321 Oh, I'm not, no, no. Not me, personally, but it's the principle, the precedent, the policy... 1045 01:19:08,483 --> 01:19:12,954 The policy is up to me, Humphrey, and I've said yes, so it's done. OK? 1046 01:19:23,643 --> 01:19:29,115 What's the matter with Humphrey? I haven't done anything wrong, have I? 1047 01:19:29,283 --> 01:19:34,277 There aren't any security implications, are there? What's the problem? 1048 01:19:36,203 --> 01:19:39,400 - Am I talking to myself? - No, I'm listening. 1049 01:19:39,563 --> 01:19:44,034 - Why don't you answer? - I thought your questions were purely rhetorical. 1050 01:19:44,203 --> 01:19:48,799 - I see no reason for him to be so anxious. - Unless... 1051 01:19:50,203 --> 01:19:54,401 - Are you thinking what I'm thinking? - I don't think so, Minister. 1052 01:19:56,043 --> 01:19:58,034 I'm not thinking anything, really. 1053 01:19:59,043 --> 01:20:03,161 - I begin to smell a rat. - Shall I get an environmental health officer? 1054 01:20:07,483 --> 01:20:10,680 How long has Sir Humphrey been here at Administrative Affairs? 1055 01:20:10,843 --> 01:20:13,437 - Since it was founded. - When was that? 1056 01:20:13,603 --> 01:20:17,676 1964. The same time they started the Department for Economic... 1057 01:20:20,043 --> 01:20:24,036 - Now I think I'm thinking what you're thinking. - And what are you thinking? 1058 01:20:24,203 --> 01:20:27,036 You're thinking, where was he before 1964? 1059 01:20:27,203 --> 01:20:33,358 It'll be in "Who's Who". He must've been in another department and trawled for the DAA. 1060 01:20:33,523 --> 01:20:37,118 - What? - Trawled. You know, fished, caught in the net. 1061 01:20:38,123 --> 01:20:41,115 - Ah, here we are. Oh, my God! - What? 1062 01:20:42,843 --> 01:20:47,473 From 1950 to 1956, he was Assistant Principal at the Scottish Office. 1063 01:20:49,363 --> 01:20:52,082 On secondment from the War Office. 1064 01:20:52,243 --> 01:20:53,642 Ah. 1065 01:20:54,923 --> 01:20:57,915 Regional Contracts Officer. 1066 01:20:58,083 --> 01:21:00,199 30 years ago. 1067 01:21:02,403 --> 01:21:04,598 So the official... 1068 01:21:04,763 --> 01:21:07,994 ...who chucked away £40 million... 1069 01:21:08,163 --> 01:21:10,961 ...of taxpayers' money was... 1070 01:21:12,803 --> 01:21:14,998 How frightful! 1071 01:21:16,803 --> 01:21:20,000 - It's awful, Minister. - Dreadful. 1072 01:21:21,363 --> 01:21:25,402 And all the papers due for release in a few weeks' time. 1073 01:21:27,363 --> 01:21:31,561 - Get Humphrey to come back here at once. - Yes, Minister. 1074 01:21:33,843 --> 01:21:39,440 The Minister wonders if Sir Humphrey could spare time for a meeting sometime in the next few days. 1075 01:21:39,603 --> 01:21:42,800 - At once. - In fact, sometime today is really... 1076 01:21:42,963 --> 01:21:46,956 - At once! - Sometime during the next 60 seconds. 1077 01:21:51,763 --> 01:21:55,358 - He's coming round now. - Why? Did he faint? 1078 01:21:58,683 --> 01:22:02,392 - No, he's just, you know... - This is serious, Bernard. 1079 01:22:02,563 --> 01:22:04,474 Yes, I know. 1080 01:22:06,643 --> 01:22:10,033 - This is no laughing matter. - No, certainly not. 1081 01:22:18,723 --> 01:22:20,714 The question is... 1082 01:22:22,043 --> 01:22:24,432 ...how am I going to deal with it? 1083 01:22:24,603 --> 01:22:26,833 - In my opinion... - The question was rhetorical. 1084 01:22:31,403 --> 01:22:35,954 - You wanted a word, Minister? - Humphrey, come in, come in. 1085 01:22:38,883 --> 01:22:40,680 Sorry, Bernard. 1086 01:22:42,203 --> 01:22:44,797 (BERNARD CHUCKLES) 1087 01:22:48,483 --> 01:22:51,873 I've been thinking about this Scottish island scandal. 1088 01:22:53,363 --> 01:22:56,116 - Very worrying. - Well, I don't know... 1089 01:22:56,283 --> 01:23:01,596 You probably don't realise this, but that official could still be in the Civil Service. 1090 01:23:02,683 --> 01:23:04,674 - Very unlikely. - But why? 1091 01:23:04,843 --> 01:23:09,439 He could've been in his mid-20s then, he'd be in his mid-50s now. 1092 01:23:09,603 --> 01:23:12,401 Might even be a Permanent Secretary! 1093 01:23:13,523 --> 01:23:16,560 - I hardly think... - No, of course, you're right. 1094 01:23:16,723 --> 01:23:21,114 Nobody who made a blunder like that could become a Permanent Secretary. 1095 01:23:21,283 --> 01:23:26,676 - Anyway, I want a full investigation. - We can't find out that sort of thing. 1096 01:23:26,843 --> 01:23:32,042 But surely we can. I mean, you said yourself that minutes are always made, records kept 1097 01:23:32,203 --> 01:23:34,000 in the Civil Service. 1098 01:23:34,163 --> 01:23:39,556 And legal documents concerning a current contract wouldn't have been thrown away. 1099 01:23:40,563 --> 01:23:45,762 Minister... aren't we making a little too much of this? 1100 01:23:45,923 --> 01:23:52,032 Possibly blighting a brilliant career because of a... tiny slip 30 years ago? 1101 01:23:52,203 --> 01:23:57,516 - After all, it's not such a lot of money wasted. - £40 million? 1102 01:23:58,483 --> 01:24:01,281 Well, not compared with Blue Streak, 1103 01:24:01,443 --> 01:24:04,913 TSR.2, Trident, Concorde, 1104 01:24:05,083 --> 01:24:07,517 high-rise council flats, 1105 01:24:07,683 --> 01:24:10,277 British Rail, 1106 01:24:10,443 --> 01:24:12,513 British Leyland, British Steel, 1107 01:24:13,243 --> 01:24:15,234 Upper Clyde Shipbuilders, 1108 01:24:16,283 --> 01:24:20,117 the atomic power station programme, comprehensive schools, 1109 01:24:20,283 --> 01:24:22,672 the University of Essex. 1110 01:24:24,443 --> 01:24:28,641 I take your point, but it's still more, a hundred times more, 1111 01:24:28,803 --> 01:24:32,193 than this official could ever have earned in his entire career. 1112 01:24:32,363 --> 01:24:37,278 So I want you to look into it and find out who it was. 1113 01:24:38,523 --> 01:24:39,842 OK? 1114 01:24:48,843 --> 01:24:52,074 - Yes, Humphrey? - There is something you ought to know. 1115 01:24:53,523 --> 01:24:55,514 Yes, Humphrey? 1116 01:24:56,683 --> 01:25:01,393 The identity of the official whose alleged responsibility for this hypothetical oversight, 1117 01:25:01,563 --> 01:25:04,031 as being the subject of recent discussion, 1118 01:25:04,203 --> 01:25:08,037 is not shrouded in quite such impenetrable obscurity 1119 01:25:08,203 --> 01:25:10,842 as previous disclosures led you to assume. 1120 01:25:11,003 --> 01:25:13,995 But not to put too fine a point on it... 1121 01:25:15,003 --> 01:25:18,598 ...the individual in question is, it may surprise you to learn, 1122 01:25:18,763 --> 01:25:21,960 one whom your present interlocutor... 1123 01:25:23,883 --> 01:25:26,078 ...is in the habit of defining... 1124 01:25:27,363 --> 01:25:30,161 ...by means of the perpendicular pronoun. 1125 01:25:35,723 --> 01:25:37,714 I beg your pardon? 1126 01:25:40,523 --> 01:25:43,117 It was... I. 1127 01:25:44,563 --> 01:25:46,360 Humphrey! 1128 01:25:48,563 --> 01:25:51,600 - No? - I was under pressure! 1129 01:25:54,083 --> 01:25:58,679 We were overworked, there was panic! Parliamentary questions tabled. 1130 01:25:58,843 --> 01:26:05,521 Obviously I'm not a trained lawyer or I wouldn't have been in charge of the Legal Unit! 1131 01:26:06,963 --> 01:26:13,072 - 30 years ago! Everybody makes mistakes! - Well, Humphrey... I forgive you. 1132 01:26:16,643 --> 01:26:18,634 Oh, thank you, Minister. 1133 01:26:18,803 --> 01:26:24,799 Why didn't you tell me about this before? We have no secrets from each other, have we? 1134 01:26:26,683 --> 01:26:30,642 - That is for you to say, Minister. - Well, not entirely. 1135 01:26:30,803 --> 01:26:33,522 Anyhow, what are we going to do? 1136 01:26:33,683 --> 01:26:38,359 I'm going to be roasted if I don't release all those papers to the Mail. 1137 01:26:38,523 --> 01:26:44,519 I might be able to do something about it... if I hadn't got this other worry on my plate. 1138 01:26:44,683 --> 01:26:46,674 What other worry? 1139 01:26:47,883 --> 01:26:54,072 Being roasted by the press for disciplining the most efficient council in Great Britain. 1140 01:26:56,923 --> 01:26:59,642 I've been thinking about South Derbyshire. 1141 01:27:02,043 --> 01:27:05,035 - Oh, good. - Obviously we can't change the law. 1142 01:27:05,203 --> 01:27:09,481 Perhaps we might show them leniency - a private word with the Chief Executive. 1143 01:27:09,643 --> 01:27:14,797 - Give them a chance to mend their ways. - That might help considerably. 1144 01:27:14,963 --> 01:27:18,558 How will I explain the missing documents to the Mail? 1145 01:27:18,723 --> 01:27:21,760 Well, this is what we normally do in... 1146 01:27:23,443 --> 01:27:25,434 ...circumstances like these. 1147 01:27:27,283 --> 01:27:32,277 "This file contains the complete set of papers, except for a number of secret documents, 1148 01:27:32,443 --> 01:27:35,435 "a few others which are part of still-active files, 1149 01:27:35,603 --> 01:27:39,437 "some correspondence lost in the floods of 1967..." 1150 01:27:41,563 --> 01:27:43,952 Was 1967 a particularly bad winter? 1151 01:27:44,963 --> 01:27:51,038 No, a marvellous winter. We lost no end of embarrassing files. 1152 01:27:51,203 --> 01:27:57,199 "...records lost in the move to London, or when the War Office joined the Ministry of Defence, 1153 01:27:57,363 --> 01:28:00,958 "and the withdrawal of papers that could give grounds for an action 1154 01:28:01,123 --> 01:28:06,117 "for libel or breach of confidence or cause embarrassment to friendly governments." 1155 01:28:07,163 --> 01:28:12,362 Well, that's pretty comprehensive. How many does that normally leave for them to look at? 1156 01:28:13,363 --> 01:28:16,958 How many does it actually leave? 1157 01:28:17,123 --> 01:28:19,717 About a hundred? Fifty? 1158 01:28:21,403 --> 01:28:23,712 Ten? Five? 1159 01:28:24,803 --> 01:28:26,600 Four? 1160 01:28:26,763 --> 01:28:28,594 Three? Two? 1161 01:28:30,043 --> 01:28:32,034 One? 1162 01:28:34,643 --> 01:28:37,237 Zero? 1163 01:28:37,403 --> 01:28:38,722 Yes, Minister. 1164 01:30:08,994 --> 01:30:11,827 We can't be accused of wasting money? 1165 01:30:11,994 --> 01:30:15,748 - Absolutely. - We are taking the smallest possible delegation? 1166 01:30:15,914 --> 01:30:20,305 - Absolutely. Pared to the bone. - Who are all those people? 1167 01:30:23,114 --> 01:30:26,311 - Our delegation. - You said it'd been pared to the bone. 1168 01:30:26,474 --> 01:30:29,034 - So it has? - Who are they? 1169 01:30:29,194 --> 01:30:33,506 A small delegation from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. 1170 01:30:33,674 --> 01:30:37,667 - But this is a DAA mission. - Yes, well, we are going abroad. 1171 01:30:37,834 --> 01:30:39,825 Foreign policy is at stake. 1172 01:30:39,994 --> 01:30:44,988 We're going to ratify a contract for one of the biggest export orders Britain's ever obtained. 1173 01:30:45,154 --> 01:30:51,423 That was negotiated by British Electronic Systems. Who are all these civil servants? 1174 01:30:51,594 --> 01:30:55,587 There's a delegation from the Department of Trade and one from Industry. 1175 01:30:55,754 --> 01:30:59,383 There's a group from Energy. We are going to an oil sheikdom. 1176 01:30:59,554 --> 01:31:03,024 There's a Deputy Secretary leading a team from the Cabinet Office. 1177 01:31:03,194 --> 01:31:08,393 There's a group from the Central Office of Information, there's our DAA team. 1178 01:31:08,554 --> 01:31:12,263 Press secretaries, private secretaries, liaison secretaries. 1179 01:31:12,434 --> 01:31:16,427 The legal department who did the contract, those who supervised it. 1180 01:31:16,594 --> 01:31:18,664 - Pared to the bone? - To the bone. 1181 01:31:18,834 --> 01:31:22,827 If we'd met in Middlesbrough, we'd have only taken seven people. 1182 01:31:22,994 --> 01:31:28,022 Well, Teesside is perhaps not quite so diplomatically significant as Kumran. 1183 01:31:28,194 --> 01:31:32,631 - Teesside returns four MPs. - Kumran controls Shell and BP. 1184 01:31:35,154 --> 01:31:39,147 - What are you doing here? - Purely my sense of duty-free. 1185 01:31:39,314 --> 01:31:40,713 Duty-free? 1186 01:31:40,874 --> 01:31:45,231 Er... duty, free from any personal consideration. 1187 01:31:45,394 --> 01:31:47,954 - Look through this. - What is it? 1188 01:31:48,114 --> 01:31:50,548 - It's the final communiqué. - The final...?! 1189 01:31:50,714 --> 01:31:53,103 You can't write it before the meeting! 1190 01:31:53,274 --> 01:31:57,062 On the contrary, you can't write it AFTER the meeting. 1191 01:31:57,234 --> 01:32:02,433 We had to get agreement from other departments, the EEC, Washington, the Kumrani Embassy. 1192 01:32:02,594 --> 01:32:07,588 - You can't do that in the desert. - It may bear no relation to what we say. 1193 01:32:07,754 --> 01:32:11,110 No communiqué ever bears any relation to what you say. 1194 01:32:11,274 --> 01:32:15,267 - Then why have one? - It gets you past the press corps. 1195 01:32:15,434 --> 01:32:19,825 The journalists need to justify their huge expenses for a futile non-event. 1196 01:32:19,994 --> 01:32:23,828 - Non-event? - Oh, a brilliant triumph for you, Minister. 1197 01:32:23,994 --> 01:32:27,270 Which is why it's a futile non-event for the press. 1198 01:32:27,434 --> 01:32:30,710 They'd like me to get drunk at the reception. 1199 01:32:30,874 --> 01:32:34,344 Yes. Not much hope of that. Kumran is dry. 1200 01:32:34,514 --> 01:32:38,302 Yeah. Well, of course, it is in the middle of the desert. 1201 01:32:41,034 --> 01:32:44,344 - You mean... Islamic law? - Alas, yes. 1202 01:32:46,354 --> 01:32:49,346 - We can get a drink at the British Embassy? - Yes. 1203 01:32:49,514 --> 01:32:54,872 But the reception and the dinner are at the palace. Five hours of orange juice. 1204 01:32:55,874 --> 01:32:58,593 Five hours? Without a single drinky? 1205 01:33:00,114 --> 01:33:05,108 Why did you let me come on this trip? What are we going to do? Hip flasks? 1206 01:33:05,274 --> 01:33:08,710 No, much too risky. We have to grin and bear it. 1207 01:33:09,714 --> 01:33:14,549 Why don't we set up a security communications room next door to the reception? 1208 01:33:14,714 --> 01:33:18,502 You know, emergency telephones, telex lines to Downing Street. 1209 01:33:18,674 --> 01:33:22,667 Then we could fill it with booze brought in from the Embassy. 1210 01:33:22,834 --> 01:33:25,268 - Minister! - Liven up the orange juice! 1211 01:33:26,234 --> 01:33:29,112 That is a... stroke of genius! 1212 01:33:30,354 --> 01:33:35,144 - Could it be done? - Such a room would need a major crisis. 1213 01:33:35,314 --> 01:33:39,705 - Five hours on orange juice is a major crisis. - The pound is under pressure. 1214 01:33:39,874 --> 01:33:45,870 - Could you arrange it? - I think I can guarantee enthusiastic support. 1215 01:34:05,114 --> 01:34:09,869 Most awfully generous of you to present me with this very splendid gift. Oops! 1216 01:34:10,034 --> 01:34:14,983 - It is a great pleasure to commemorate this day. - It's so beautiful! 1217 01:34:15,154 --> 01:34:19,909 A magnificent example of 17th-century Islamic art. 1218 01:34:20,074 --> 01:34:23,032 - What was it originally? - A rosewater jar. 1219 01:34:23,194 --> 01:34:28,393 - I see. For... er... rosewater, presumably? - Quite so. 1220 01:34:28,554 --> 01:34:33,548 Minister, there's an urgent call for you in the communications room. A Mr Haig. 1221 01:34:38,154 --> 01:34:40,748 General Haig? 1222 01:34:40,914 --> 01:34:43,826 No, MR Haig. You know, with the dimples. 1223 01:34:44,834 --> 01:34:48,144 Yes, yes. Do excuse me. Most important. 1224 01:34:55,274 --> 01:34:59,062 - I believe there's a message from Mr Haig. - Yes, Minister. 1225 01:35:09,554 --> 01:35:12,273 - I'm the only woman here. - Special dispensation. 1226 01:35:12,434 --> 01:35:15,631 They've made you an honorary man for the evening. 1227 01:35:15,794 --> 01:35:19,992 - This will look wonderful on our hall table. - Mrs Hacker, I'm not sure if... 1228 01:35:20,154 --> 01:35:23,112 - If what? - It's a gift to the minister. 1229 01:35:23,274 --> 01:35:24,866 It's his hall, too. 1230 01:35:25,034 --> 01:35:28,743 - I don't think you'll be allowed to keep it. - Why ever not? 1231 01:35:28,914 --> 01:35:33,112 It could be thought, if it were valuable, it could influence some ministers. 1232 01:35:33,274 --> 01:35:37,825 Not your minister, that is, my minister, our minister. Your husband, as it were. 1233 01:35:37,994 --> 01:35:42,784 As it is, in fact. I mean, he is. I mean... Well, some ministers... 1234 01:35:42,954 --> 01:35:45,343 - Bernard. - Sorry. 1235 01:35:45,514 --> 01:35:49,507 - Are you saying we have to give it back? - No, that'd be an insult. 1236 01:35:49,674 --> 01:35:53,747 - We can't give it back. What do I do? - It becomes government property. 1237 01:35:53,914 --> 01:35:57,748 - It's put in a basement in Whitehall. - You sure we can't keep it? 1238 01:35:57,914 --> 01:36:01,509 - Not if it's worth more than £50. - How do we find out? 1239 01:36:01,674 --> 01:36:04,666 - You get a valuation. - Could you get a valuation? 1240 01:36:04,834 --> 01:36:10,511 Wouldn't it be wonderful if it was less than £50? Because it's awfully pretty. 1241 01:36:11,114 --> 01:36:12,911 Well, I... 1242 01:36:14,394 --> 01:36:17,591 - I suppose I could try. - Oh, Bernard, you are wonderful! 1243 01:36:17,754 --> 01:36:19,745 What would we do without you? 1244 01:36:21,514 --> 01:36:24,904 Bernard. Wanted in the communications room. 1245 01:36:25,074 --> 01:36:27,065 A Mr John Walker. 1246 01:36:30,394 --> 01:36:34,387 - Johnnie Walker? - Yes, from the Scotch Office... Sorry. 1247 01:36:36,514 --> 01:36:39,312 - Scottish Office. - Isn't there a message for me? 1248 01:36:39,474 --> 01:36:44,673 Yes, of course. Bernard will get it for you if you give him your glass. If you... 1249 01:36:44,834 --> 01:36:48,986 ...give him your glass, he'll get you some more orange juice. 1250 01:36:49,154 --> 01:36:52,351 - Is Humphrey here yet? - Yes, he's just over here. 1251 01:36:52,514 --> 01:36:54,106 Excuse me. 1252 01:36:54,274 --> 01:36:55,912 Ahem. Excuse me. 1253 01:36:58,794 --> 01:37:02,548 - Minister. - What on earth...?! 1254 01:37:02,714 --> 01:37:07,151 Traditional Foreign Office courtesy to our Arab hosts, isn't that right? 1255 01:37:07,314 --> 01:37:11,307 Spot on, Humphrey. Isn't that right, Your Royal Highness? 1256 01:37:11,474 --> 01:37:14,784 Yes, we regard it as a warm and gracious compliment. 1257 01:37:14,954 --> 01:37:18,151 May I present our minister? This is Prince Mohammed. 1258 01:37:18,314 --> 01:37:21,511 - How do you do? - Pleased to meet you, Your Excellency. 1259 01:37:21,674 --> 01:37:27,670 Excellency! I say, if you'll excuse me, I just must have a quick word with Sir Humphrey. 1260 01:37:27,834 --> 01:37:31,873 I can't believe my eyes! What are you here as? Ali Baba? 1261 01:37:32,834 --> 01:37:36,622 - Minister, when in Rome... - We are not in Rome. You look ridiculous! 1262 01:37:36,794 --> 01:37:41,185 I suppose if we were in the Fiji Islands, you'd wear a grass skirt! 1263 01:37:41,354 --> 01:37:47,304 The Foreign Office view, as Arabs are sensitive, is we should show them whose side we're on. 1264 01:37:47,474 --> 01:37:53,071 It may come as a surprise to the Foreign Office, but you're supposed to be on OUR side! 1265 01:37:53,234 --> 01:37:57,546 - Bernard, any messages? - Well, there is one for Sir Humphrey. 1266 01:37:57,714 --> 01:38:01,548 - Oh, good. - The Soviet Embassy on the line. Mr Smirnoff. 1267 01:38:06,754 --> 01:38:08,631 Sorry. So sorry. 1268 01:38:09,594 --> 01:38:11,585 Isn't there one for me? 1269 01:38:11,754 --> 01:38:16,748 There was a message from the Embassy, the school - a delegation of Teachers. 1270 01:38:16,914 --> 01:38:20,111 Ah, I must go and greet the Teachers... 1271 01:38:21,114 --> 01:38:24,424 ...before the Bells goes... bell goes! 1272 01:38:25,754 --> 01:38:30,066 You're receiving a great many very urgent messages. 1273 01:38:30,234 --> 01:38:32,828 - Yes, yes, we are, aren't we? - Excuse me. 1274 01:38:32,994 --> 01:38:36,589 Your Royal Highness, could I present Mr Pennington? 1275 01:38:36,754 --> 01:38:39,951 - Excuse me. - Yes, of course, Your Highness. 1276 01:38:41,474 --> 01:38:47,265 Excuse me, but I could not help overhearing your conversation about valuing the gift. 1277 01:38:47,434 --> 01:38:49,629 - Perhaps I can help. - That would be... 1278 01:38:49,794 --> 01:38:52,592 - Do you have any idea how much? - Of course. 1279 01:38:52,754 --> 01:38:56,303 An original 17th-century rosewater jar is very valuable. 1280 01:38:56,474 --> 01:38:59,227 - Oh, dear. - You are not pleased? 1281 01:38:59,394 --> 01:39:03,751 Yes and no. If it's valuable, the minister won't be allowed to keep it. 1282 01:39:03,914 --> 01:39:07,111 - I was rather hoping it wasn't. - Ah. 1283 01:39:07,274 --> 01:39:12,109 Well, as I was saying, an original 17th-century rosewater jar is very valuable, 1284 01:39:12,274 --> 01:39:16,472 but this copy, though excellently done, is not of the same order. 1285 01:39:16,634 --> 01:39:19,785 Oh, good. About how much? 1286 01:39:20,834 --> 01:39:24,588 - I would be interested to hear your guess. - Oh. 1287 01:39:24,754 --> 01:39:28,110 Er... well, a little under... £50? 1288 01:39:28,274 --> 01:39:31,823 Brilliant! Quite a connoisseur! 1289 01:39:31,994 --> 01:39:35,589 - And you would sign a valuation certificate? - But of course. 1290 01:39:36,634 --> 01:39:40,343 - Your English customs are very strange. - Oh, why? 1291 01:39:40,514 --> 01:39:42,823 You are so strict about a gift, 1292 01:39:42,994 --> 01:39:46,987 yet your electronics company pays our finance minister a million dollars 1293 01:39:47,154 --> 01:39:49,145 to secure this contract. 1294 01:39:49,314 --> 01:39:51,305 Is this not strange? 1295 01:39:53,674 --> 01:39:56,063 - You... You don't mean... - Of course. 1296 01:39:56,234 --> 01:39:59,306 I work for the minister. I got my share. 1297 01:39:59,474 --> 01:40:03,103 - What for? - For keeping my mouth shut. 1298 01:40:04,554 --> 01:40:07,512 L-I see. Would you excuse me for a moment? 1299 01:40:09,594 --> 01:40:12,586 Minister, can I have a private word with Sir Humphrey? 1300 01:40:12,754 --> 01:40:15,348 You may speak freely, Bernie. 1301 01:40:15,514 --> 01:40:19,302 Yes... Oh, there was a message for you in the communications room. 1302 01:40:19,474 --> 01:40:23,069 - The VAT man, your 69 returns. - What?! 1303 01:40:23,234 --> 01:40:26,067 - VAT 69. - Oh. Ah! 1304 01:40:26,234 --> 01:40:28,031 Yes... thanks. 1305 01:40:32,674 --> 01:40:35,142 I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion 1306 01:40:35,314 --> 01:40:40,263 that the minister has had almost as many urgent messages as he can take. 1307 01:40:40,434 --> 01:40:44,029 - I've found out the most terrible thing. - Dear me. 1308 01:40:44,194 --> 01:40:46,503 This contract was obtained by bribery. 1309 01:40:46,674 --> 01:40:48,392 Of course. 1310 01:40:49,354 --> 01:40:53,142 All contracts in Kumran are obtained by bribery. Everybody knows that. 1311 01:40:53,314 --> 01:40:55,987 It's all right, as long as nobody knows. 1312 01:40:56,834 --> 01:40:59,029 - Shouldn't we tell the minister? - Certainly not. 1313 01:40:59,194 --> 01:41:02,584 - But if everybody knows. - Everybody else. 1314 01:41:02,754 --> 01:41:06,110 We do not let a minister know what everybody else knows. 1315 01:41:06,274 --> 01:41:08,868 Highness, how very nice to see you. 1316 01:41:09,034 --> 01:41:12,822 Ah, Lawrence of Arabia, you're wanted in the communications room. 1317 01:41:12,994 --> 01:41:14,985 Oh, good. Er, who is it? 1318 01:41:15,154 --> 01:41:16,951 Napoleon! 1319 01:41:24,434 --> 01:41:29,144 "It is alleged in Le Monde that the recent British contract with Kumran 1320 01:41:29,314 --> 01:41:31,305 "was won by bribery." 1321 01:41:32,114 --> 01:41:34,787 - Do you hear this, Humphrey? - Yes, indeed. 1322 01:41:34,954 --> 01:41:39,744 "It's part of a hideous web of corruption woven by Western industrial countries 1323 01:41:39,914 --> 01:41:44,351 "and Third World governments that forms a blot of our modern civilisation." 1324 01:41:44,514 --> 01:41:47,233 - Webs don't form blots, Minister. - What? 1325 01:41:48,314 --> 01:41:51,112 Well, spiders don't have any ink, you see. 1326 01:41:52,354 --> 01:41:54,151 Only cuttlefish. 1327 01:41:54,314 --> 01:41:57,863 - Spiders don't...! What are you talking about? - I know... 1328 01:41:58,034 --> 01:42:02,232 - Thank you, Bernard. - Isn't this terrible? Baseless accusations! 1329 01:42:02,394 --> 01:42:04,589 Oh, yes, yes, terrible. 1330 01:42:04,754 --> 01:42:07,905 Backsheesh, palm-greasing! Good God, we're British! 1331 01:42:08,074 --> 01:42:10,668 Absolutely, Minister! 1332 01:42:11,514 --> 01:42:16,668 It's not like the FT to print a story like this unless there's something behind it. 1333 01:42:16,834 --> 01:42:21,828 - Is there something behind it, Humphrey? - I think the sports news is behind it. 1334 01:42:24,034 --> 01:42:27,913 - I want to know the truth, Humphrey. - I don't think you do. 1335 01:42:28,674 --> 01:42:32,872 - Will you answer a direct question? - I strongly advise you not to ask one. 1336 01:42:33,034 --> 01:42:35,468 - Why? - It might provoke a direct answer. 1337 01:42:36,354 --> 01:42:38,345 It never has yet. 1338 01:42:40,194 --> 01:42:42,992 What do YOU know about this? Tell me! 1339 01:42:43,154 --> 01:42:47,750 Oh, well, I... er... Er, that is... there was. Someone did. 1340 01:42:47,914 --> 01:42:51,793 - A lot of gossip, that's all. Rumour, hearsay. - Bernard? 1341 01:42:52,434 --> 01:42:56,632 - One Kumrani did tell me he'd received... - Hearsay, Minister. 1342 01:42:56,794 --> 01:42:59,433 - Hearsay? - Yes, Bernard heard him say it. 1343 01:43:01,154 --> 01:43:04,749 Are you telling me that the contract was won by bribery? 1344 01:43:04,914 --> 01:43:07,986 I do wish you wouldn't use words like bribery. 1345 01:43:08,154 --> 01:43:12,386 What would you like me to say? Slush funds, sweeteners, brown envelopes? 1346 01:43:12,554 --> 01:43:16,149 These are extremely crude and unworthy expressions 1347 01:43:16,314 --> 01:43:19,112 for what is no more than creative negotiation. 1348 01:43:19,274 --> 01:43:20,992 It is general practice. 1349 01:43:21,154 --> 01:43:26,353 You do realise what you're saying? I ratified that contract in good faith! 1350 01:43:26,514 --> 01:43:31,713 In that press communiqué, I announced a British success won in a fair fight! 1351 01:43:31,874 --> 01:43:34,672 Mm, yes, I did wonder about that bit. 1352 01:43:34,834 --> 01:43:38,031 - Now you're telling me it was got by bribery. - No. 1353 01:43:38,194 --> 01:43:42,631 - Oh, it was not got by bribery? - That is not what I said. 1354 01:43:42,794 --> 01:43:47,345 - What did you say? - That I'm not telling you it was got by bribery. 1355 01:43:47,514 --> 01:43:52,713 - How would you describe these payments? - How does the contract describe them? 1356 01:43:52,874 --> 01:43:57,470 Oh, well, that's quite simple. Retainers, personal donations, special discounts. 1357 01:43:57,634 --> 01:44:03,266 Miscellaneous outgoings, agents' fees, political contributions, management expenses. 1358 01:44:03,434 --> 01:44:05,584 How are these payments made? 1359 01:44:05,754 --> 01:44:08,746 Anything from a numbered Swiss account 1360 01:44:08,914 --> 01:44:13,510 to a fistful of used oncers slipped under the door of the gents'. 1361 01:44:13,674 --> 01:44:18,668 - Do you realise how shocking this is? - That is a narrow and parochial view. 1362 01:44:18,834 --> 01:44:21,792 In other parts of the world, they see things differently. 1363 01:44:21,954 --> 01:44:24,946 - Sin is not a branch of geography. - But it is. 1364 01:44:25,114 --> 01:44:29,710 In developing countries, the size of the extra contractual payment 1365 01:44:29,874 --> 01:44:32,104 shows how serious you are. 1366 01:44:32,274 --> 01:44:34,868 It's like a publisher's advance to an author. 1367 01:44:35,034 --> 01:44:38,822 Whoever pays the biggest advance expects the biggest sales. 1368 01:44:38,994 --> 01:44:40,985 - I don't believe it! - (BUZZER) 1369 01:44:41,154 --> 01:44:43,349 Is corruption government policy? 1370 01:44:43,514 --> 01:44:47,348 No, no, Minister! It could never be government policy! 1371 01:44:47,514 --> 01:44:51,143 That is unthinkable! Only government practice. 1372 01:44:52,074 --> 01:44:56,784 That was the press office. The papers want a statement about the bribery allegation. 1373 01:44:56,954 --> 01:44:58,751 What am I going to say? 1374 01:44:58,914 --> 01:45:04,625 The press office can devise something convincing and meaningless. That's what they're paid for. 1375 01:45:04,794 --> 01:45:07,991 - You're a cynic, Humphrey. - Cynic. 1376 01:45:08,154 --> 01:45:11,829 A cynic is what an idealist calls a realist. 1377 01:45:12,834 --> 01:45:18,511 I'll tell the truth. After all, I knew nothing of this. Why should I back something I never approved? 1378 01:45:18,674 --> 01:45:23,873 But this contract means thousands of British jobs, millions of export dollars! 1379 01:45:24,034 --> 01:45:28,152 Surely you won't throw all that away because of a technical irregularity? 1380 01:45:28,314 --> 01:45:35,629 - It's not a technical irregularity, it is corruption! - No. Merely a few uncontracted pre-payments. 1381 01:45:35,794 --> 01:45:41,346 I don't expect you to understand, but government is not just a question of fixing and manipulating. 1382 01:45:41,514 --> 01:45:46,304 - There is a moral dimension. - Of, yes, of course, the moral dimension. 1383 01:45:46,474 --> 01:45:49,068 It is never out of my thoughts. 1384 01:45:49,234 --> 01:45:53,705 So if questions are asked in the press, I shall announce an inquiry. 1385 01:45:53,874 --> 01:45:56,672 Splendid idea. I shall be happy to conduct it. 1386 01:45:56,834 --> 01:45:59,223 No, no, no, no, no. 1387 01:45:59,394 --> 01:46:03,228 No, not an internal inquiry, a REAL inquiry. 1388 01:46:03,394 --> 01:46:05,589 - You can't be serious! - A real inquiry. 1389 01:46:05,754 --> 01:46:10,305 - I beg you... - Humphrey... the moral dimension. 1390 01:46:10,474 --> 01:46:12,465 (DOORBELL) 1391 01:46:15,114 --> 01:46:17,833 - Good evening, Mrs Hacker. - Bernard, come in. 1392 01:46:17,994 --> 01:46:19,791 - Thank you. - Is that you, Bernard? 1393 01:46:19,954 --> 01:46:21,945 - Yes, Minister. - Shan't be a moment. 1394 01:46:22,114 --> 01:46:27,507 - There's that jar from Kumran. - A friend of mine was frightfully interested in it. 1395 01:46:27,674 --> 01:46:29,983 - Really? - Jenny Goodwin from The Guardian. 1396 01:46:31,754 --> 01:46:34,951 - The Guardian? - She asked where it came from. 1397 01:46:35,114 --> 01:46:38,709 - A journalist? - Yes. Well, The Guardian, anyway. 1398 01:46:41,114 --> 01:46:45,107 - She asked what it was worth. I said £50. - You said £50. 1399 01:46:45,274 --> 01:46:50,029 - Funnily enough, she thought it was genuine. - She thought it was genuine? 1400 01:46:50,194 --> 01:46:54,472 - Bernard, you sound like an answering machine. - Oh, I'm sorry. 1401 01:46:54,634 --> 01:46:58,229 She wanted to ring Kumran's Embassy to ask what it was worth. 1402 01:46:58,394 --> 01:47:00,385 To ask what it was worth. 1403 01:47:01,834 --> 01:47:05,543 - So what did you say? - I said, by all means. 1404 01:47:05,714 --> 01:47:07,784 It is only a copy, isn't it? 1405 01:47:08,994 --> 01:47:11,462 Well... so far as I'm... 1406 01:47:12,354 --> 01:47:15,630 ...so I'm lead to... Good gracious, is that the time? 1407 01:47:18,514 --> 01:47:21,824 - Bernard. - Sorry, the minister will be a few minutes late. 1408 01:47:25,234 --> 01:47:30,149 - I'll come back. - Actually, I wonder if I could have a word. 1409 01:47:30,314 --> 01:47:31,633 Yes. 1410 01:47:34,354 --> 01:47:37,266 - I said yes. - Yes, I know. 1411 01:47:38,914 --> 01:47:40,905 You see... 1412 01:47:41,074 --> 01:47:43,463 Something the matter, Bernard? 1413 01:47:44,274 --> 01:47:46,265 Come on, out with it. 1414 01:47:47,034 --> 01:47:50,185 Did you send the minister to the wrong dinner? 1415 01:47:51,634 --> 01:47:57,072 Give him the wrong speech? Show him some papers we didn't mean him to see? 1416 01:47:59,994 --> 01:48:01,791 Worse? 1417 01:48:03,194 --> 01:48:05,185 Much worse? 1418 01:48:08,314 --> 01:48:10,464 Sit down. 1419 01:48:12,194 --> 01:48:14,992 Well... tell me about it. 1420 01:48:15,154 --> 01:48:18,624 You know that jar the minister was given in Kumran? 1421 01:48:18,794 --> 01:48:23,026 - Well, the minister's wife... liked it. - I expect she did. 1422 01:48:23,194 --> 01:48:27,028 Then, when I explained the rules to her, she looked... terribly sad. 1423 01:48:27,914 --> 01:48:30,030 They always do. 1424 01:48:30,834 --> 01:48:34,827 She said wouldn't it be marvellous if it wasn't worth more than £50 1425 01:48:34,994 --> 01:48:37,428 and she sort of... looked at me. 1426 01:48:38,394 --> 01:48:41,352 But, my dear Bernard, a 17th-century vase! 1427 01:48:41,514 --> 01:48:46,463 Yes, I know, but there was this terribly nice Kumrani businessman 1428 01:48:46,634 --> 01:48:51,469 and we had a... a... a... conversation 1429 01:48:51,634 --> 01:48:56,025 and he valued it as a copy, not as an original - £49.95p. 1430 01:49:00,554 --> 01:49:03,546 - You believed him. - He said he was an expert. 1431 01:49:03,714 --> 01:49:08,708 He spoke Arabic awfully well... and so I accepted his valuation in good faith. 1432 01:49:08,874 --> 01:49:11,434 After all, Islam is a jolly good faith. 1433 01:49:12,954 --> 01:49:17,425 You took a grave personal risk. You're lucky nobody's asked questions. 1434 01:49:17,594 --> 01:49:22,065 A journalist saw it in the minister's house and asked a lot of questions. 1435 01:49:22,234 --> 01:49:27,945 Mrs Hacker said it was a copy, but the press are so... horribly suspicious about things. 1436 01:49:28,114 --> 01:49:32,392 - Despicable! - So... what shall I do? 1437 01:49:32,554 --> 01:49:34,545 The minister must be told. 1438 01:49:37,034 --> 01:49:39,423 Sorry to keep you. 1439 01:49:39,594 --> 01:49:43,792 - That's all right. Have you read my submission? - I did, and it won't do. 1440 01:49:43,954 --> 01:49:46,991 I won't be accused of sweeping bribery under the carpet. 1441 01:49:47,154 --> 01:49:51,830 If questions are asked, I will announce an independent inquiry chaired by a QC. 1442 01:49:51,994 --> 01:49:55,669 You can't! That contract is worth £340 million! 1443 01:49:55,834 --> 01:49:59,429 Get thee behind me, Humphrey! The moral dimension. 1444 01:49:59,594 --> 01:50:04,622 Minister, if there is an inquiry, other things may come out, too. 1445 01:50:04,794 --> 01:50:06,386 Such as? 1446 01:50:06,554 --> 01:50:10,342 I'm afraid Bernard... has something to tell you. 1447 01:50:14,554 --> 01:50:16,033 Well? 1448 01:50:17,314 --> 01:50:21,546 - Well? - You know that jar the Kumranis gave you? 1449 01:50:21,714 --> 01:50:24,274 Yes, it's at the flat now. Most attractive. 1450 01:50:24,434 --> 01:50:28,427 I told Mrs Hacker she could keep it, as it was valued for less than £50. 1451 01:50:28,594 --> 01:50:33,065 The valuer was awfully nice and I told him Mrs Hacker liked it a lot, 1452 01:50:33,234 --> 01:50:36,590 but he may have been just, well, being helpful. 1453 01:50:37,554 --> 01:50:42,025 It's all right, Bernard. No one will ever know. Jolly enterprising of you. 1454 01:50:42,194 --> 01:50:45,072 Mrs Hacker told me a journalist was asking questions. 1455 01:50:46,194 --> 01:50:49,664 - Journalist?! - Can I just see that valuation? 1456 01:50:52,754 --> 01:50:58,545 Hmm. The Treasury isn't too happy about valuations written on the backs of menus. 1457 01:50:59,954 --> 01:51:02,514 It is a very good menu. 1458 01:51:02,674 --> 01:51:04,346 What is it worth? 1459 01:51:04,514 --> 01:51:08,905 - If it's a copy, what the valuation says. - And if it's... genuine? 1460 01:51:09,074 --> 01:51:10,746 About £5,000. 1461 01:51:10,914 --> 01:51:13,587 Oh, my God, I kept it! 1462 01:51:13,754 --> 01:51:17,064 Bill from the press office wants to talk to you. 1463 01:51:17,234 --> 01:51:20,829 I'm trying to deal with this problem you've landed me with! 1464 01:51:20,994 --> 01:51:24,304 - That's what he wants to talk to you about. - Well? 1465 01:51:24,474 --> 01:51:27,671 The Foreign and Commonwealth Office is in a state. 1466 01:51:27,834 --> 01:51:31,827 Mrs Hacker has told The Guardian that valuable 17th-century thing 1467 01:51:31,994 --> 01:51:34,713 presented to you by Kumran was a copy. 1468 01:51:34,874 --> 01:51:38,662 The Guardian phoned the Kumrani Embassy for their comments. 1469 01:51:38,834 --> 01:51:42,747 The Kumran government are incensed at the suggestion they insulted Britain 1470 01:51:42,914 --> 01:51:45,189 by giving you a worthless gift. 1471 01:51:45,354 --> 01:51:50,553 It's building up into the biggest diplomatic incident since "Death of a Princess". 1472 01:51:50,714 --> 01:51:55,504 There's a reporter from The Guardian demanding to see you right away. 1473 01:51:55,674 --> 01:51:57,665 Ahem. 1474 01:52:01,074 --> 01:52:03,349 Yes, Bernard? 1475 01:52:03,514 --> 01:52:08,713 - Minister... what are you... - Bernard, my duty is clear. 1476 01:52:08,874 --> 01:52:11,866 - I have no choice. - No choice? 1477 01:52:12,034 --> 01:52:17,188 No choice. I didn't ask you to lie to my wife about the value of that gift. 1478 01:52:17,354 --> 01:52:21,552 - No, but... - I realise you acted from the purest motives. 1479 01:52:21,714 --> 01:52:25,104 But there can be no excuse for falsifying a document. 1480 01:52:25,274 --> 01:52:27,105 - But I... - Let me continue. 1481 01:52:27,274 --> 01:52:29,868 I cannot have it said that I asked you to do this. 1482 01:52:30,034 --> 01:52:37,429 No more can I have it said that I connived at bribery and corruption. Enough is enough. 1483 01:52:37,594 --> 01:52:42,429 If this journalist asks me straight questions on either of these subjects... 1484 01:52:43,154 --> 01:52:45,748 ...I shall have to give her straight answers. 1485 01:52:46,434 --> 01:52:48,823 The moral dimension. 1486 01:52:49,914 --> 01:52:55,591 Minister, I agree with you. I see now that there is a moral dimension to everything. 1487 01:52:58,914 --> 01:53:03,226 Will you tell the press about the communications room or shall I? 1488 01:53:05,714 --> 01:53:07,033 What?! 1489 01:53:10,154 --> 01:53:13,510 You know, all the Scotch in Kumran. 1490 01:53:15,434 --> 01:53:18,426 You mean to tell me that... if I say... 1491 01:53:20,194 --> 01:53:22,583 ...then you will... tell... 1492 01:53:23,874 --> 01:53:25,865 ...and drop me in the... 1493 01:53:27,714 --> 01:53:30,387 In the moral dimension. 1494 01:53:32,194 --> 01:53:35,311 - This is different! It's not the same thing! - Why? 1495 01:53:35,474 --> 01:53:38,546 - Drinking, it's not corruption. - No, it's just deceit. 1496 01:53:38,714 --> 01:53:41,706 - Deceit? - We have deceived the Kumranis. 1497 01:53:41,874 --> 01:53:43,865 I'm racked with guilt. 1498 01:53:45,274 --> 01:53:51,509 Tormented by the knowledge that we violated their sacred Islamic law in their own country. 1499 01:53:52,914 --> 01:53:57,669 Sooner or later, we'll have to own up and admit that it was all your idea. 1500 01:53:57,834 --> 01:54:00,394 - It wasn't! - (BOTH) It was! 1501 01:54:01,634 --> 01:54:03,829 It wasn't... was it? 1502 01:54:04,514 --> 01:54:07,108 Is it 50 lashes or 100? 1503 01:54:09,794 --> 01:54:12,433 I must ask you to meet this journalist. 1504 01:54:12,594 --> 01:54:19,784 - Oh, yes, all right. What am I going to say? - I suggest attack is the best form of defence. 1505 01:54:19,954 --> 01:54:24,744 Attack, attack, yes. Good thinking, Humphrey. Yes, got it. 1506 01:54:25,674 --> 01:54:28,063 Miss Jenny Goodwin from The Guardian. 1507 01:54:28,234 --> 01:54:32,546 Do come in. Sit down, Jenny. I may call you Jenny, may I not? 1508 01:54:32,714 --> 01:54:36,104 - If you like. - Now, what seems to be the trouble? 1509 01:54:36,274 --> 01:54:40,472 Two things. Both of them rather worrying to the public. 1510 01:54:40,634 --> 01:54:43,944 The first is a story that was in the French press. 1511 01:54:44,114 --> 01:54:48,710 It's about corruption in BES - getting the Kumrani contract. 1512 01:54:48,874 --> 01:54:53,231 - Complete nonsense! - They quoted reports of payments to officials. 1513 01:54:53,394 --> 01:54:55,385 Really, this is absolutely typical. 1514 01:54:55,554 --> 01:54:59,467 A British company slogs its guts out to win orders, create jobs! 1515 01:54:59,634 --> 01:55:02,626 What does it get from the media? A smear campaign! 1516 01:55:02,794 --> 01:55:07,584 - If they won by bribery... - There was no bribery. I had a full inquiry. 1517 01:55:07,754 --> 01:55:11,713 - All these payments have been identified. - What as? 1518 01:55:12,754 --> 01:55:17,953 - Commission fees, administrative overheads. - Operative costs, managerial surcharges. 1519 01:55:18,114 --> 01:55:20,344 Expenses, miscellaneous outgoings. 1520 01:55:20,514 --> 01:55:23,472 We have looked into every brown envelope... 1521 01:55:23,634 --> 01:55:25,113 ...every... 1522 01:55:27,354 --> 01:55:30,346 ...every account book and everything is completely in order. 1523 01:55:31,034 --> 01:55:33,229 - I see. - May I say one thing? 1524 01:55:33,394 --> 01:55:37,182 Allegations of this nature are symptomatic of a very sick society 1525 01:55:37,354 --> 01:55:39,993 for which the media shares the blame! 1526 01:55:40,154 --> 01:55:43,863 - The media? - Why are you putting thousands of jobs at risk? 1527 01:55:44,034 --> 01:55:49,950 I'll call on the Press Council to censure the press for its lack of professionalism in running this story. 1528 01:55:50,114 --> 01:55:53,311 The Council and the House of Commons must be concerned 1529 01:55:53,474 --> 01:55:57,353 about the standards which have applied in this disgraceful matter. 1530 01:55:57,514 --> 01:56:02,872 Pressure will be brought to bear to make sure that this gutter press reporting is not repeated. 1531 01:56:04,354 --> 01:56:06,151 I see. Ahem. 1532 01:56:06,314 --> 01:56:08,509 Well, there is this other question. 1533 01:56:08,674 --> 01:56:13,464 It's about the rosewater jar apparently presented to you in Kumran. 1534 01:56:13,634 --> 01:56:16,785 - Yes? - I saw it in your flat, actually. 1535 01:56:16,954 --> 01:56:20,344 - Yes, we're keeping it there, temporarily. - Temporarily? 1536 01:56:20,514 --> 01:56:23,904 - Yes, it's very valuable. - Mrs Hacker said it was an imitation. 1537 01:56:24,074 --> 01:56:26,065 Burglars, girl, burglars! 1538 01:56:26,234 --> 01:56:30,830 And you've gossip! That's until we can get rid of it. 1539 01:56:30,994 --> 01:56:35,829 - Get rid of it? - I'll present it to our local museum this weekend. 1540 01:56:35,994 --> 01:56:39,304 I can't hold onto it, you know. It's government property. 1541 01:56:39,474 --> 01:56:42,511 Now... what was your question? 1542 01:56:44,834 --> 01:56:47,394 No... er... that's all right, actually. 1543 01:56:47,554 --> 01:56:50,751 Um... I... No, no, no, that's fine. 1544 01:56:50,914 --> 01:56:53,747 - Nothing more? - No, no, that's all. 1545 01:56:53,914 --> 01:56:56,508 Well, good of you to drop in. 1546 01:56:56,674 --> 01:56:59,063 - Thank you, Minister. - Goodbye, Jenny. 1547 01:57:02,634 --> 01:57:05,023 Superb, Minister. 1548 01:57:07,714 --> 01:57:10,706 - Thank you, Minister. - Oh, well, it was nothing. 1549 01:57:10,874 --> 01:57:14,867 We must stick by one's friends, eh, Humphrey? Eh, Bernard? 1550 01:57:15,834 --> 01:57:17,631 Loyalty. 1551 01:57:18,074 --> 01:57:20,144 (BOTH) Yes, Minister. 1552 01:58:47,216 --> 01:58:50,492 - Are you sure Hacker's the man for this? - Yes. 1553 01:58:50,656 --> 01:58:54,615 He's the best choice to bring in an integrated transport policy?! 1554 01:58:54,776 --> 01:58:57,210 - Yes. - But he knows nothing about it! 1555 01:58:57,376 --> 01:58:59,207 No. 1556 01:59:00,456 --> 01:59:04,369 - You've sounded out the Transport Secretary? - He won't touch it. 1557 01:59:04,536 --> 01:59:09,735 - Yes. This could turn out to be a bed of nails. - A crown of thorns. 1558 01:59:09,896 --> 01:59:14,890 - A booby trap. - It has to look like something's going to be done. 1559 01:59:15,816 --> 01:59:21,254 It calls for a particular combination of talents, lots of activity but no actual achievement. 1560 01:59:23,456 --> 01:59:24,969 I see. 1561 01:59:25,136 --> 01:59:27,650 Then Hacker IS the man! 1562 01:59:27,816 --> 01:59:29,966 So how do we go about him? 1563 01:59:30,136 --> 01:59:33,685 Well, you're the PM's Chief Special Advisor. You know the form. 1564 01:59:33,856 --> 01:59:37,849 We make it seem like a special honour. A promotion. A present. 1565 01:59:38,016 --> 01:59:41,326 But Sir Humphrey will tell Hacker he'd be crazy to do it. 1566 01:59:41,496 --> 01:59:46,445 Yes. "Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes," I can hear him say. 1567 01:59:46,616 --> 01:59:50,131 "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts," roughly translated. 1568 01:59:50,296 --> 01:59:55,814 Humphrey would have put it in English for Hacker's benefit. Hacker went to the LSE. 1569 01:59:56,296 --> 02:00:00,812 - So did I. - Oh, I AM sorry. 1570 02:00:02,336 --> 02:00:07,012 We must get an immediate commitment from Hacker before he talks to Humphrey. 1571 02:00:07,176 --> 02:00:10,327 - Today? Now? - Don't you think it'll work? 1572 02:00:10,496 --> 02:00:13,488 Flattering a politician? When's it ever failed? 1573 02:00:14,816 --> 02:00:19,014 We'll offer to call him Transport Supremo, shall we? 1574 02:00:19,176 --> 02:00:23,010 Yes, much more attractive than Transport Muggins! 1575 02:00:23,576 --> 02:00:25,806 (KNOCK ON DOOR) 1576 02:00:25,976 --> 02:00:28,536 Ah, Jim! 1577 02:00:28,696 --> 02:00:30,129 Hello, Mark. 1578 02:00:31,936 --> 02:00:34,006 - Arnold. - Drink? 1579 02:00:34,176 --> 02:00:36,087 Yes, thank you. 1580 02:00:41,936 --> 02:00:45,531 - Everything all right? - Everything's fine. 1581 02:00:45,696 --> 02:00:51,771 We wanted... Er, that is, the Prime Minister wanted the Cabinet Secretary and me 1582 02:00:51,936 --> 02:00:54,245 to sound you out about something... 1583 02:00:54,416 --> 02:00:57,453 ...something of an honour, I may say. 1584 02:00:57,616 --> 02:01:03,964 - Honour? You don't mean... kicked up there? - No, no. A real honour. 1585 02:01:04,136 --> 02:01:07,128 A significant increase of responsibility. 1586 02:01:07,296 --> 02:01:12,051 Now, what are your views on the Integrated National Transport Policy? 1587 02:01:12,216 --> 02:01:14,252 Er... I... I... 1588 02:01:14,696 --> 02:01:16,971 Well, er... I... 1589 02:01:19,016 --> 02:01:20,449 Go on. 1590 02:01:21,336 --> 02:01:24,692 The PM has decided we need a national transport policy. 1591 02:01:24,856 --> 02:01:27,893 Yes. Well. Why not? 1592 02:01:28,976 --> 02:01:30,807 You're in favour? 1593 02:01:37,736 --> 02:01:42,287 Unfortunately, public dissatisfaction with the nationalised transport industries 1594 02:01:42,456 --> 02:01:46,768 is now at a high enough level to worry the government, as you know. 1595 02:01:50,176 --> 02:01:51,768 Can you go on? 1596 02:01:51,936 --> 02:01:56,373 - No, we can't go on, not like this. - We need a policy. 1597 02:01:56,536 --> 02:02:01,735 Not just blame the management if there's an R in the month and the unions the rest of the time. 1598 02:02:01,896 --> 02:02:06,412 Unfortunately, they've got together. Their line is it's the government's fault. 1599 02:02:06,576 --> 02:02:10,854 Everything that goes wrong is the result of not having an integrated policy. 1600 02:02:11,016 --> 02:02:14,292 - We did have a policy before. - Did we? 1601 02:02:14,456 --> 02:02:17,448 Yes, it was our policy not to have a policy. 1602 02:02:18,456 --> 02:02:21,846 Well, now the PM wants a positive policy. 1603 02:02:22,016 --> 02:02:24,928 Oh, the PM. Yes, well, er... 1604 02:02:25,096 --> 02:02:29,374 - I couldn't agree more. I've always thought so. - Good. 1605 02:02:29,536 --> 02:02:32,130 Surely it's a Ministry of Transport matter? 1606 02:02:32,296 --> 02:02:33,649 No. 1607 02:02:33,816 --> 02:02:38,810 Obviously the Transport Secretary would love the job, but he's too close to it all. 1608 02:02:38,976 --> 02:02:42,855 - Can't see the wood for the trees. - It needs an open mind, uncluttered. 1609 02:02:43,016 --> 02:02:47,851 So the PM has decided to appoint a supremo 1610 02:02:48,016 --> 02:02:51,929 to develop and implement a national transport policy. 1611 02:02:52,096 --> 02:02:55,054 - Supremo? - A supremo. 1612 02:02:55,216 --> 02:02:56,615 And... 1613 02:02:59,776 --> 02:03:01,494 Exactly. 1614 02:03:01,656 --> 02:03:06,286 - It was agreed you had the most open mind. - And the most uncluttered. 1615 02:03:07,136 --> 02:03:11,095 Of course it's a great honour and a responsibility. 1616 02:03:11,256 --> 02:03:16,455 Er, but what... What sort of... Er... I mean... 1617 02:03:16,616 --> 02:03:20,689 You mean what is required of an integrated transport policy minister? 1618 02:03:20,856 --> 02:03:24,929 - It's to help the consumer. - Very popular with the public. 1619 02:03:25,096 --> 02:03:28,884 - Not that that would... - No, of course not. It's my duty. 1620 02:03:29,056 --> 02:03:33,015 For example, the motorways were planned without reference to the railways, 1621 02:03:33,176 --> 02:03:38,011 so there are great stretches of motorway running alongside already existing railways. 1622 02:03:38,176 --> 02:03:42,408 - While other areas aren't served at all. - Quite. We knew you'd understand. 1623 02:03:42,576 --> 02:03:45,488 - It's really quite simple. - Yes. 1624 02:03:45,656 --> 02:03:49,535 - Then there's through tickets. - Through tickets...? 1625 02:03:49,816 --> 02:03:52,728 If you want to commute from Henley to the City, 1626 02:03:52,896 --> 02:03:58,209 you need one British Rail ticket to Paddington and then an Underground ticket to the Bank. 1627 02:03:58,376 --> 02:04:02,892 Have you ever seen a combined bus and railway timetable? 1628 02:04:03,056 --> 02:04:06,014 Or ever seen a bus timetable in a railway station? 1629 02:04:06,176 --> 02:04:09,134 Has a bus driver ever seen a bus timetable? 1630 02:04:12,216 --> 02:04:17,415 There's a British Rail Western Region line running less than a mile north of Heathrow, 1631 02:04:17,576 --> 02:04:19,407 but no link line. 1632 02:04:19,576 --> 02:04:22,693 Bus and train services don't connect, all over London. 1633 02:04:22,856 --> 02:04:28,726 - And outside London there are problems. - Probably. But we don't know about them. 1634 02:04:30,136 --> 02:04:35,574 It's full of possibilities. I suppose you'd like me to discuss it with Humphrey and come back? 1635 02:04:35,736 --> 02:04:42,130 There is much to discuss with Sir Humphrey, but we need an indication of your response now. 1636 02:04:42,296 --> 02:04:46,847 The PM's car leaves for the airport in 30 minutes. The Ottowa conference. 1637 02:04:47,016 --> 02:04:50,565 - Then the United Nations speech in New York. - Then Washington. 1638 02:04:50,736 --> 02:04:55,207 Gosh, what a long trip. Who's going to run the country? 1639 02:04:55,376 --> 02:04:57,685 Sorry, Arnold. Silly question. 1640 02:04:58,656 --> 02:05:02,615 - So we can give the PM the good news? - There's a lot to put in hand. 1641 02:05:02,776 --> 02:05:07,486 - Oh, yes. I'm on. - Splendid! Have another drink. 1642 02:05:10,136 --> 02:05:12,775 - Ah, Minister. - Sorry I'm late. 1643 02:05:12,936 --> 02:05:16,008 - Got some splendid news. - Indeed, Minister? 1644 02:05:16,176 --> 02:05:19,725 - I have a new job. - The department will be sorry to lose you. 1645 02:05:20,696 --> 02:05:23,005 No, I mean an extra job. 1646 02:05:23,176 --> 02:05:28,330 I've been asked to develop an integrated national transport policy by the Prime Minister. 1647 02:05:28,496 --> 02:05:31,215 I see. And what was the good news? 1648 02:05:34,096 --> 02:05:35,927 That WAS the good news. 1649 02:05:36,096 --> 02:05:39,771 Oh. Then how, if I may be so bold as to enquire, 1650 02:05:39,936 --> 02:05:42,211 - would you describe bad news? - What? 1651 02:05:42,376 --> 02:05:45,891 Do you realise what this job would mean if you accept it? 1652 02:05:46,056 --> 02:05:48,126 - I have accepted it. - You've what? 1653 02:05:48,296 --> 02:05:53,814 - I HAVE accepted it. - Minister, you're not serious! 1654 02:05:53,976 --> 02:05:57,013 Yes, it's an honour. We need a transport policy. 1655 02:05:57,176 --> 02:05:59,770 If by "we" you mean Britain, that's quite true. 1656 02:05:59,936 --> 02:06:02,245 But if by "we" you mean this department, 1657 02:06:02,416 --> 02:06:06,694 we need a transport policy like an aperture in the cranial cavity! 1658 02:06:07,296 --> 02:06:09,287 It is a bed of nails! 1659 02:06:09,456 --> 02:06:14,371 - I know it may cause extra administrative duties. - Minister, that is not the point. 1660 02:06:14,536 --> 02:06:17,608 The reason there's no integrated transport policy 1661 02:06:17,776 --> 02:06:21,849 is that it's in everybody's interest except the minister who creates it. 1662 02:06:22,016 --> 02:06:23,927 Why? 1663 02:06:24,096 --> 02:06:28,294 How can I put it in a manner which is close to your heart? 1664 02:06:28,456 --> 02:06:33,132 - It is the ultimate vote loser. - Vote loser? 1665 02:06:33,296 --> 02:06:36,606 Why do you think the Transport Secretary isn't doing it? 1666 02:06:36,776 --> 02:06:39,165 Why did he suggest the Lord Privy Seal? 1667 02:06:39,336 --> 02:06:43,773 Why did the Lord Privy Seal suggest the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, 1668 02:06:43,936 --> 02:06:47,372 - who suggested the President of the Council? - I didn't know this. 1669 02:06:47,536 --> 02:06:51,290 And why did they invite you to No. 10 behind my back? 1670 02:06:51,456 --> 02:06:57,008 Minister, this hideous appointment has been hurtling round Whitehall for three weeks 1671 02:06:57,176 --> 02:06:59,485 like a grenade with the pin taken out! 1672 02:07:01,016 --> 02:07:03,484 If I pull it off, it'll be a feather in my cap. 1673 02:07:03,656 --> 02:07:07,535 If you pull it off, Minister, it won't be in your cap any more. 1674 02:07:07,696 --> 02:07:12,565 Thank you, Bernard. If you pull it off, no one will feel the benefits for ten years. 1675 02:07:12,736 --> 02:07:16,411 - Long before that, you and I will have moved on. - Or up. 1676 02:07:16,576 --> 02:07:18,965 - Or out. - Out? 1677 02:07:19,136 --> 02:07:22,845 In the meantime, formulating policy means making choices. 1678 02:07:23,016 --> 02:07:28,090 Once you do that, you please the people that you favour, but infuriate everybody else. 1679 02:07:28,256 --> 02:07:30,770 One vote gained, ten lost. 1680 02:07:30,936 --> 02:07:35,805 If you give the job to the road services, the rail board and unions will scream. 1681 02:07:35,976 --> 02:07:39,207 Give it to the railways, the road lobby will massacre you. 1682 02:07:39,376 --> 02:07:44,734 Cut British Airways investment plans, they'll hold a devastating press conference that same day. 1683 02:07:44,896 --> 02:07:47,126 But I'm going to be Transport Supremo! 1684 02:07:49,456 --> 02:07:53,449 I believe the Civil Service vernacular is Transport Muggins! 1685 02:07:54,176 --> 02:08:00,092 No, the Prime Minister has asked me to undertake this task, this necessary duty. 1686 02:08:00,256 --> 02:08:03,692 After all, we must all endeavour to do our duty. 1687 02:08:03,856 --> 02:08:07,531 Furthermore, Sir Mark thinks there may be votes in it. 1688 02:08:07,696 --> 02:08:13,293 - I won't look a gift horse in the mouth. - You're looking a Trojan horse in the mouth! 1689 02:08:13,456 --> 02:08:17,335 If we look closely at this gift horse we'll find it full of Trojans? 1690 02:08:17,496 --> 02:08:22,490 If you'd looked a Trojan horse in the mouth, you'd have found Greeks inside. 1691 02:08:22,656 --> 02:08:26,649 It was the Greeks who gave the Trojan horse to the Trojans. 1692 02:08:26,816 --> 02:08:30,252 Technically, it wasn't a Trojan horse but a Greek horse. 1693 02:08:30,416 --> 02:08:34,125 Hence the tag "Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes," which, you'll recall, 1694 02:08:34,296 --> 02:08:38,812 is usually and somewhat inaccurately translated, "Beware Greeks bearing gifts," 1695 02:08:38,976 --> 02:08:42,855 or doubtless you would have recalled had you not attended the LSE. 1696 02:08:44,456 --> 02:08:48,051 Greek tags are all very well, but can we stick to the point? 1697 02:08:48,216 --> 02:08:50,366 - Yes... - Sorry, Greek tags? 1698 02:08:50,536 --> 02:08:52,891 "Beware Greeks bearing gifts." 1699 02:08:53,056 --> 02:08:58,005 The EEC equivalent would be, "Beware Greeks bearing an olive oil surplus"! 1700 02:08:58,176 --> 02:09:01,213 - Excellent. - No, the point is, Minister, 1701 02:09:01,376 --> 02:09:05,688 just as the Trojan horse was Greek, what you call a Greek tag is, in fact, Latin. 1702 02:09:05,856 --> 02:09:11,089 The Greeks wouldn't suggest bewaring of themselves, if one can use such a participle, 1703 02:09:11,256 --> 02:09:16,774 and it's clearly Latin not because "Timeo" ends in "o", as the Greek first person also ends in "o". 1704 02:09:16,936 --> 02:09:21,168 No, there is a Greek word "Timao" meaning "I honour", 1705 02:09:21,336 --> 02:09:25,648 but the "os" ending is a nominative singular termination of a second declension in Greek 1706 02:09:25,816 --> 02:09:27,886 and an accusative plural in Latin, 1707 02:09:28,056 --> 02:09:33,813 though actually Danaos is not only the Greek for Greek, it's also the Latin for Greek. 1708 02:09:35,776 --> 02:09:40,054 Yes, I take your point, Humphrey, but is it really as bad as that? 1709 02:09:40,216 --> 02:09:44,846 Minister, perhaps... Perhaps you will allow me to prove it to you. 1710 02:09:46,296 --> 02:09:49,288 I will arrange a preliminary conference for you 1711 02:09:49,456 --> 02:09:53,369 with three Under-Secretaries from the Department of Transport, 1712 02:09:53,536 --> 02:09:57,814 - from the roads, rail and air transport divisions. - What will that prove? 1713 02:09:57,976 --> 02:10:00,934 It may illustrate some problems you will encounter. 1714 02:10:01,096 --> 02:10:06,966 You may be right, Humphrey. But if I succeed, this could be my Falkland Islands. 1715 02:10:07,136 --> 02:10:08,569 Yes. 1716 02:10:09,336 --> 02:10:11,804 And you could be General Galtieri! 1717 02:10:15,856 --> 02:10:20,293 With respect, Minister, I feel constrained to point out the proposal is deeply misguided. 1718 02:10:20,456 --> 02:10:24,495 - So what do you suggest? - I suggest it should be government policy 1719 02:10:24,656 --> 02:10:28,729 to designate road haulage as its principal means of freight transport. 1720 02:10:28,896 --> 02:10:31,364 If I might crave your indulgence for a moment, 1721 02:10:31,536 --> 02:10:36,894 I think such a policy would be, not to put too fine a point on it, unacceptably short-sighted. 1722 02:10:37,056 --> 02:10:41,846 Rail transport must surely be the favoured carrier under any sane national policy. 1723 02:10:42,016 --> 02:10:47,374 With the greatest respect, both those proposals are formulae for disaster. 1724 02:10:47,536 --> 02:10:51,131 Long-term considerations mandate the increase of air freight. 1725 02:10:51,296 --> 02:10:54,288 If the minister wants a massive budget increase... 1726 02:10:54,456 --> 02:10:57,846 If the minister accepts a long, bitter rail strike... 1727 02:10:58,016 --> 02:11:02,567 If the minister can tolerate a massive rise in public discontent... 1728 02:11:02,736 --> 02:11:04,328 Hold on! 1729 02:11:04,496 --> 02:11:08,091 - We are the government, aren't we? - Indeed you are, Minister. 1730 02:11:08,256 --> 02:11:11,692 - So we're all on the same side. - (ALL) Indeed, no question. 1731 02:11:11,856 --> 02:11:13,687 Doing what's best for Britain. 1732 02:11:13,856 --> 02:11:17,087 Is the end of the air freight business best for Britain? 1733 02:11:17,256 --> 02:11:21,135 How is Britain served by the destruction of the railways? 1734 02:11:21,296 --> 02:11:25,130 How does Britain benefit from a deterioration of the road network? 1735 02:11:25,296 --> 02:11:29,892 I want to examine policy options for the government's freight transport needs. 1736 02:11:30,056 --> 02:11:36,291 I thought a preliminary discussion, a few friends around the table, a few positive suggestions... 1737 02:11:36,456 --> 02:11:40,813 - An expansion of rail transport... - An expansion of motorway construction... 1738 02:11:40,976 --> 02:11:45,686 - An expansion of air freight capacity. - I need to achieve a reduction in costs. 1739 02:11:45,856 --> 02:11:50,213 - Then there is only one possible course. - Indeed there is. 1740 02:11:50,376 --> 02:11:52,731 And there's no doubt what it is. 1741 02:11:52,896 --> 02:11:57,447 Good. I always like to end on a note of agreement. Thank you, gentlemen. 1742 02:11:57,616 --> 02:11:59,095 Minister. 1743 02:11:59,256 --> 02:12:03,772 Perhaps we could discuss a date for our next meeting. This way, please. 1744 02:12:05,256 --> 02:12:08,009 That was a very frank meeting. 1745 02:12:08,176 --> 02:12:11,134 More than frank, Minister. Frank bordering on direct. 1746 02:12:11,296 --> 02:12:15,972 - The cleaners will mop up the blood tomorrow. - Bernard, can you help me? 1747 02:12:16,136 --> 02:12:19,128 - How, Minister? - Under-Secretaries are civil servants. 1748 02:12:19,296 --> 02:12:23,926 But they behave like counsel briefed by the transport interests to defeat the government. 1749 02:12:24,096 --> 02:12:26,690 - That's right. - No, Bernard, that's wrong. 1750 02:12:26,856 --> 02:12:32,408 That's how it works. Each department is controlled by the people it's supposed to control. 1751 02:12:32,576 --> 02:12:36,854 - How do you mean? - Why do we have comprehensive education? 1752 02:12:37,016 --> 02:12:39,849 - Who wanted it? Pupils, parents? - Not really. 1753 02:12:40,016 --> 02:12:42,211 The National Union of Teachers, 1754 02:12:42,376 --> 02:12:46,654 the chief client of the Department of Education, so the DES went comprehensive. 1755 02:12:46,816 --> 02:12:51,492 Departments act for the powerful interest with whom they have a permanent relationship. 1756 02:12:51,656 --> 02:12:54,807 The Department of Employment lobbies for the TUC. 1757 02:12:54,976 --> 02:12:58,969 The Department of Industry lobbies for the employers. It's a nice balance. 1758 02:12:59,136 --> 02:13:04,085 Energy lobbies for oil companies, Defence for the armed forces, the Home Office for the police. 1759 02:13:04,256 --> 02:13:08,329 So the system aims to stop the Cabinet carrying out its policies? 1760 02:13:08,496 --> 02:13:10,726 Well, somebody's got to! 1761 02:13:12,936 --> 02:13:17,691 So formulating a national transport policy means fighting not just the transport industry 1762 02:13:17,856 --> 02:13:21,405 but the entire Civil Service as well? 1763 02:13:22,216 --> 02:13:26,004 Shouldn't the Civil Service help the government carry out its wishes? 1764 02:13:26,176 --> 02:13:30,055 Well, as long as the government's wishes are practicable. 1765 02:13:30,216 --> 02:13:33,970 - Meaning? - As long as the Civil Service agrees with them! 1766 02:13:35,176 --> 02:13:38,054 Useful meeting, Minister. 1767 02:13:38,216 --> 02:13:40,446 All right, Humphrey. 1768 02:13:41,136 --> 02:13:43,411 You win. 1769 02:13:44,856 --> 02:13:48,132 - What do I win? - We must get out of our commitments. 1770 02:13:48,296 --> 02:13:51,925 Clearly the title Transport Supremo is not worth having. 1771 02:13:52,096 --> 02:13:56,169 - We must change the Prime Minister's mind. - Is that "we" plural, 1772 02:13:56,336 --> 02:13:59,965 or do supremos now use the royal pronoun? 1773 02:14:00,816 --> 02:14:04,855 I mean both of us, Humphrey, unless you want the DAA saddled with this. 1774 02:14:06,016 --> 02:14:11,613 - So, what are you suggesting? - Bernard, find a map of the PM's constituency. 1775 02:14:11,776 --> 02:14:14,768 - Humphrey, I need some advice. - Yes, Minister? 1776 02:14:14,936 --> 02:14:20,806 Could the formulation of a national transport policy have unwanted local repercussions? 1777 02:14:22,096 --> 02:14:24,769 Er, yes, indeed, Minister. 1778 02:14:24,936 --> 02:14:29,646 Even in a constituency represented by a very senior member of the government, 1779 02:14:29,816 --> 02:14:34,173 - the MOST senior member of the government? - Deeply embarrassing! 1780 02:14:34,336 --> 02:14:38,887 - Here's the street map and the directory. - Splendid. 1781 02:14:39,056 --> 02:14:44,574 This is the Prime Minister's constituency, isn't it? Oh, look, a park! 1782 02:14:46,376 --> 02:14:48,446 Near the station. 1783 02:14:48,616 --> 02:14:55,010 One requirement of a transport policy is to bring bus stations nearer to railway stations. 1784 02:14:55,176 --> 02:14:58,452 - But that would mean building on the park. - Alas, yes. 1785 02:14:59,176 --> 02:15:01,974 Somebody has to suffer in the national interest. 1786 02:15:02,136 --> 02:15:07,210 Take a note, Bernard. Bus station to be moved into Queen Charlotte's Park. 1787 02:15:07,776 --> 02:15:11,212 Oh, Minister, there's a big bus repair shop. 1788 02:15:11,376 --> 02:15:14,925 Isn't it economic to amalgamate the bus and train repairs? 1789 02:15:15,096 --> 02:15:19,612 - Absolutely. Big saving. - Bus repair shop to be closed, Bernard. 1790 02:15:19,776 --> 02:15:25,248 - This is commuter country, what about that? - Commuter trains run at a loss. 1791 02:15:25,416 --> 02:15:30,536 They're only really used at rush hours. So commuters are, in effect, subsidised. 1792 02:15:30,696 --> 02:15:34,769 - Isn't that unfair on the others? - It's a great injustice. 1793 02:15:34,936 --> 02:15:38,133 Commuters to pay full economic fares, Bernard. 1794 02:15:38,776 --> 02:15:43,930 - Mind, that'll double the price of tickets. - Can't make an omelette without breaking eggs! 1795 02:15:44,096 --> 02:15:48,851 There are quite a few railway stations in this area. British Rail and Underground. 1796 02:15:49,016 --> 02:15:50,335 Yes? 1797 02:15:50,496 --> 02:15:57,254 One view is that areas with reasonable rail services don't need an evening bus service too. 1798 02:15:57,416 --> 02:16:02,444 A very persuasive view, to my mind. All bus services to cease after 6.30pm. 1799 02:16:04,656 --> 02:16:08,535 What about this space when the bus station's moved to the park? 1800 02:16:08,696 --> 02:16:13,611 Well, the area's very short of parking space for container lorries... 1801 02:16:14,936 --> 02:16:16,688 ...especially at night. 1802 02:16:17,176 --> 02:16:20,885 Container lorry park on bus station site, Bernard. 1803 02:16:21,056 --> 02:16:25,368 - Won't that mean widening this access road? - Yes, indeed. 1804 02:16:25,536 --> 02:16:28,972 We'll have to take away the western half of the swimming baths. 1805 02:16:29,136 --> 02:16:30,933 I'm afraid so. 1806 02:16:31,096 --> 02:16:35,248 Of course, these are just the local implications of a broad national policy. 1807 02:16:35,416 --> 02:16:37,134 Exactly, Minister. 1808 02:16:37,296 --> 02:16:40,971 Even so, I ought to write a paper to the Prime Minister personally. 1809 02:16:41,136 --> 02:16:44,173 He'd like to know the constituency implications. 1810 02:16:44,336 --> 02:16:49,774 As a loyal Cabinet member, I owe that to the PM... amongst other things! 1811 02:16:50,296 --> 02:16:54,255 Mind you, it would be awful if the press got hold of this. 1812 02:16:54,416 --> 02:16:58,409 With so many other boroughs threatened, there'd be a national outcry. 1813 02:16:58,576 --> 02:17:04,685 - Is there a danger of them getting hold of it? - They're very clever at getting hold of things. 1814 02:17:04,856 --> 02:17:08,565 - Especially if there are lots of copies. - Oh, dear! 1815 02:17:08,736 --> 02:17:11,967 I shall have to make copies for my Cabinet colleagues. 1816 02:17:12,136 --> 02:17:16,175 Their own constituencies will be affected in due course. 1817 02:17:16,336 --> 02:17:21,933 And if it were leaked, with so many copies, no one would ever discover who leaked it. 1818 02:17:23,336 --> 02:17:27,773 It so happens I'm having lunch today with Peter Maxwell of The Times. 1819 02:17:27,936 --> 02:17:29,494 Excellent! 1820 02:17:29,856 --> 02:17:33,087 Em, don't do anything I wouldn't do. 1821 02:17:34,136 --> 02:17:36,252 You can trust me, Minister! 1822 02:17:42,296 --> 02:17:46,926 I'm sure you've heard rumours, Peter, of this integrated transport policy. 1823 02:17:47,096 --> 02:17:51,169 - That old chestnut coming up again? - Yes, but in an interesting form. 1824 02:17:51,336 --> 02:17:55,215 - The policy may have unwelcome side effects. - Such as? 1825 02:17:55,376 --> 02:17:58,448 Job loss from integration of bus and rail terminals, 1826 02:17:58,616 --> 02:18:01,255 job loss from joint repair shops, 1827 02:18:01,416 --> 02:18:04,408 job loss from streamlining of buses and trains, 1828 02:18:04,576 --> 02:18:07,409 and reduction of services, causing job loss. 1829 02:18:08,856 --> 02:18:10,926 That's just for starters. 1830 02:18:11,696 --> 02:18:15,006 If this is being seriously proposed, it's quite a story. 1831 02:18:15,176 --> 02:18:18,088 - Even more interesting than you think. - How's that? 1832 02:18:18,856 --> 02:18:23,486 One of the areas to suffer most is the Prime Minister's own constituency. 1833 02:18:23,656 --> 02:18:25,806 Have you any hard facts? 1834 02:18:27,256 --> 02:18:29,326 Dear Peter, what a question! 1835 02:18:29,496 --> 02:18:35,492 Newspapers aren't like the government. If we make statements, we have to prove them. 1836 02:18:36,096 --> 02:18:40,851 Got something in writing? There always is in the Civil Service. 1837 02:18:41,656 --> 02:18:45,410 Only a confidential note from my minister to the Prime Minister 1838 02:18:45,576 --> 02:18:50,331 and a similar note from my minister to all 22 of his Cabinet colleagues. 1839 02:18:51,376 --> 02:18:53,253 Oh, that's all right, then. 1840 02:18:53,416 --> 02:18:57,773 Will you show it to me or shall I get it from one of the others? 1841 02:18:57,936 --> 02:19:04,648 Peter, it's a confidential document. It would be grossly improper of me to betray it to anyone 1842 02:19:04,816 --> 02:19:07,171 - let alone a journalist. - Of course. 1843 02:19:07,336 --> 02:19:13,571 The only way you'd get hold of a copy is if someone were to leave it lying around by mistake. 1844 02:19:13,736 --> 02:19:15,249 I see. 1845 02:19:15,416 --> 02:19:18,328 Oh, well, back to the grindstone. 1846 02:19:20,376 --> 02:19:23,891 Well, nice to talk, Peter. Thank you for the lunch. 1847 02:19:24,056 --> 02:19:26,047 - Thank you. - Goodbye. 1848 02:19:30,216 --> 02:19:33,208 Oh, Humphrey, you are SO careless! 1849 02:19:35,496 --> 02:19:37,487 - (KNOCK AT DOOR) - Hmm? 1850 02:19:39,056 --> 02:19:41,650 Ah, Jim. Thanks for dropping in. 1851 02:19:41,816 --> 02:19:46,492 I thought I ought to tell you that the PM isn't very pleased. 1852 02:19:46,656 --> 02:19:49,887 - Oh, not pleased? - Not pleased. 1853 02:19:50,896 --> 02:19:55,526 - This story in last Tuesday's Times. - Yes, terrible. I'm not pleased either. 1854 02:19:56,416 --> 02:19:59,169 - There's obviously been a leak. - Obviously. 1855 02:19:59,336 --> 02:20:03,170 - Can't even trust Cabinet colleagues. - What are you suggesting? 1856 02:20:03,336 --> 02:20:06,294 Well, it might not have been one of them. 1857 02:20:06,456 --> 02:20:11,610 I sent a copy of my paper here to No. 10. You don't think there's a leak here, do you? 1858 02:20:11,776 --> 02:20:16,372 - The PM's office does not leak! - Of course not. Perish the thought! 1859 02:20:16,536 --> 02:20:22,486 It wasn't just the leak that was disturbing. It was the misleading implications of the proposals. 1860 02:20:22,656 --> 02:20:27,935 - No, not misleading. Have you read my paper? - Have you read mine? 1861 02:20:32,856 --> 02:20:37,771 - This is the paper from the PM's constituency. - I believe it is. 1862 02:20:37,936 --> 02:20:41,565 "PM steps in to stop transport reorganisation proposals. 1863 02:20:42,376 --> 02:20:47,655 "Rumours that services and jobs were threatened in this constituency were scotched today. 1864 02:20:47,816 --> 02:20:53,254 "Apparently the PM has given a firm direction to Transport Supremo designate Jim Hacker." 1865 02:20:53,416 --> 02:20:57,773 - I haven't heard from the Prime Minister. - You have now! 1866 02:20:57,936 --> 02:21:01,975 I'm afraid this leak, wherever it comes from, is a verbatim report 1867 02:21:02,136 --> 02:21:06,175 of a confidential minute dictated by the PM in Ottowa. 1868 02:21:07,136 --> 02:21:12,051 So, the national transport policy will need some re-thinking! 1869 02:21:13,536 --> 02:21:15,288 It will be difficult. 1870 02:21:15,456 --> 02:21:19,449 The PM feels it's the difficult jobs that the ministers are there for, 1871 02:21:19,616 --> 02:21:24,406 - assuming they wish to remain as ministers. - Yes, well, of course. 1872 02:21:24,576 --> 02:21:26,965 - If it needs, er... - Rethinking. 1873 02:21:27,136 --> 02:21:29,730 ...rethinking, then of course I shall rethink. 1874 02:21:29,896 --> 02:21:31,295 Good. 1875 02:21:31,456 --> 02:21:35,051 But how did this get into the PM's own local paper? 1876 02:21:35,216 --> 02:21:40,006 I don't know. But the PM's office does not leak. 1877 02:21:42,536 --> 02:21:46,211 Shocking, though, isn't it? You can't trust anyone nowadays. 1878 02:21:50,216 --> 02:21:52,172 Back to square one. Well, that's all right. 1879 02:21:52,336 --> 02:21:56,648 It is NOT all right. It means I'm still stuck with this ghastly job. 1880 02:21:56,816 --> 02:22:01,446 No, Minister, it is excellent news. We now present our other kind of non-proposal. 1881 02:22:01,616 --> 02:22:04,494 - What other kind? - The high cost, high staff kind. 1882 02:22:04,656 --> 02:22:08,490 We now propose a British National Transport Authority 1883 02:22:08,656 --> 02:22:14,049 with a full structure, regional board, area council, local office, liaison committee, the lot. 1884 02:22:14,216 --> 02:22:17,014 80,000 staff, billion-a-year budget. 1885 02:22:17,696 --> 02:22:20,449 The Treasury will have a fit! 1886 02:22:20,616 --> 02:22:24,245 The whole thing will go back to the Department of Transport. 1887 02:22:24,416 --> 02:22:28,204 Great. Could you do me a paper on this, Humphrey, 1888 02:22:28,376 --> 02:22:32,847 with full staff and costing details and a specimen annual budget? 1889 02:22:37,616 --> 02:22:40,608 There's a one-page summary on the front. 1890 02:22:40,776 --> 02:22:44,405 - Humphrey, you're marvellous. - It's nothing, really. 1891 02:22:44,576 --> 02:22:48,012 I say, what if the press should get hold of this! 1892 02:22:50,656 --> 02:22:55,446 - They'd have to have another leak enquiry. - Will they really set up an enquiry? 1893 02:22:55,616 --> 02:22:58,005 - Bound to. - Won't that be embarrassing? 1894 02:22:58,176 --> 02:23:01,293 No, no, no. That's what leak enquiries are for. 1895 02:23:02,376 --> 02:23:05,334 Setting up. They don't actually conduct them. 1896 02:23:05,496 --> 02:23:09,728 Members may be appointed, but they'll never meet, and certainly never report. 1897 02:23:09,896 --> 02:23:13,411 How many leak enquiries can you recall that named the culprit? 1898 02:23:13,576 --> 02:23:17,535 - In round figures. - If you want it in round figures... 1899 02:23:17,696 --> 02:23:20,449 ...none. - They never report. 1900 02:23:20,616 --> 02:23:25,451 If the culprit is a civil servant, it'd be unfair to publish. Politicians take the rap. 1901 02:23:25,616 --> 02:23:30,292 If it's a politician, you can't publish or he'll disclose other leaks by his colleagues. 1902 02:23:30,456 --> 02:23:35,166 But chiefly they can't publish because most leaks come from No. 10. 1903 02:23:36,136 --> 02:23:40,527 The ship of state, Bernard, is the only ship that leaks from the top. 1904 02:23:41,456 --> 02:23:45,415 So, if the problem is a leaky PM, 1905 02:23:45,576 --> 02:23:50,411 as in this case, the facts are difficult to get at and impossible to publish if you do! 1906 02:23:51,096 --> 02:23:55,055 May I remind you, a gentleman from the press is waiting. 1907 02:23:55,216 --> 02:23:58,288 - Ah, yes. - I'll leave you, Minister. 1908 02:23:58,456 --> 02:24:01,016 - Oh, er, Humphrey... - Minister? 1909 02:24:01,896 --> 02:24:05,366 ...have you got another copy of these new proposals? 1910 02:24:05,536 --> 02:24:06,855 Of course! 1911 02:24:07,856 --> 02:24:11,485 - There. - Because I'm awfully absent-minded. 1912 02:24:11,656 --> 02:24:15,331 I'm always leaving documents lying around... 1913 02:24:16,856 --> 02:24:19,416 ...forgetting where I've put them. 1914 02:24:20,656 --> 02:24:23,454 I do understand, Minister! 1915 02:24:24,456 --> 02:24:30,053 - Another leak. This is extremely serious. - Yes, indeed. 1916 02:24:30,856 --> 02:24:33,893 This is almost approaching a disciplinary level. 1917 02:24:34,056 --> 02:24:37,526 - I so agree, don't you, Humphrey? - Indeed, Minister. 1918 02:24:37,696 --> 02:24:42,247 If only we could find the culprits. It would be a most serious matter. 1919 02:24:42,416 --> 02:24:45,453 Perhaps I can help there. 1920 02:24:45,616 --> 02:24:48,892 I think that if I were to use my influence, 1921 02:24:49,056 --> 02:24:55,006 I could achieve a disclosure from The Times of how they got hold of your original plan. 1922 02:24:56,256 --> 02:24:58,326 - Oh? - Really? 1923 02:24:59,096 --> 02:25:02,771 - I might be able to help there, too. - Indeed? 1924 02:25:02,936 --> 02:25:05,655 - Are you sure, Minister? - Oh, yes. 1925 02:25:05,816 --> 02:25:12,449 I'm confident I can find out where the press got the leak about the PM's opposition to our plan. 1926 02:25:13,696 --> 02:25:17,575 If it transpired the leak came from the Prime Minister's own office 1927 02:25:17,736 --> 02:25:22,093 that'd be even more serious than a leak from a Cabinet Minister's office. 1928 02:25:22,256 --> 02:25:25,134 I mean, the security implications alone... 1929 02:25:28,016 --> 02:25:33,295 - Perhaps we should call in the police or Ml5. - Ml5, good idea, Minister. 1930 02:25:33,456 --> 02:25:36,732 A leak from the Prime Minister's office is VERY serious. 1931 02:25:36,896 --> 02:25:41,572 Nevertheless, our first priority must be to investigate the original leak. 1932 02:25:41,736 --> 02:25:46,127 Surely we should first investigate a possible leak from No. 10. 1933 02:25:46,896 --> 02:25:50,969 In all events, the inevitable public outcry after all these leaks 1934 02:25:51,136 --> 02:25:57,689 will make it awfully difficult for us to formulate an integrated national transport policy in the DAA. 1935 02:25:57,856 --> 02:26:03,453 The time is unripe, the climate is unsuitable. The atmosphere is unfavourable. 1936 02:26:03,616 --> 02:26:06,733 Our only avenues of approach are now blocked. 1937 02:26:08,696 --> 02:26:10,846 - I wonder... - Hmm? 1938 02:26:11,016 --> 02:26:16,329 ...if it might not be wiser to take the whole matter back to the Department of Transport? 1939 02:26:17,296 --> 02:26:22,928 - That, Arnold, is a brilliant idea. - I wish I'd thought of that. 1940 02:26:24,576 --> 02:26:28,091 - There remains the question of the leaks. - Indeed. 1941 02:26:28,256 --> 02:26:32,135 I feel we ought to treat this with the utmost gravity. 1942 02:26:32,296 --> 02:26:35,174 - I think I have a solution. - Indeed? 1943 02:26:35,336 --> 02:26:41,172 Will we recommend to the Prime Minister that we set up an immediate leak enquiry? 1944 02:26:41,696 --> 02:26:43,368 (ALL) Yes, Minister!